2009 Pontiac G8 GXP and 2010 Pontiac "sports truck" photos/info

[argatoga]

Originally Posted by torrent_rider

What a sad day for America really. Saturn was created to fight the imports, now they are nothing more than rebadged Opels. Pontiac was supposed to become America's answer to BMW and now it's nothing more than rebadged Holdens. Where the hell has American ingenuity gone?!?!?!?

Pontiac has been going down hill ever since DeLorean left, but thanks to Holden they are starting to get back on track (no more "TransSport" minivans).

Saturn was never successful hence they became Opal of America.

[torrent_rider]

Originally Posted by cvrefugee

Why does it matter if GM controls Opel? Fighting a rebadged import against an import is better than nothing. Same goes with Pontiac.

My only issue is that SATURN was billed as America's answer to imports - that GM really did have the know-how here in America to compete with the best. That GM is now rebadging Opels and importing them here is an absolute admission to this country and the world that, "No people, Americans at GM simply don't have what it takes anymore to compete and so we're just going to admit defeat, tuck tail, and let foreign compaines innovate.

Same thing with Pontiac. They were supposed to be America's answer to BMW under Lutz's new plans. Well, those plans were shelved because of GM's admission that America cannot compete.

Yes, the new "Saturns" and new "Pontiacs" are good cars. Hell, I loved the GTO when it is still lambasted. However, they are not AMERICAN inventions brought about by AMERICAN innovation. Granted, everyone has a right to their own view on things. It is just me personally that I don't want to see another great American company go the way of Harley-Davidson in AMA racing when they were getting their butts kicked by the Japanese for years in a row - they quit. It is just my view that this is un-American to just so easily give up. But, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

[MattD1zzl3]

I cant stand pickup trucks, but i REALLY want one of those "G8 ST's"

I intend to pick one up used the second they drop to around the 20 grand mark.

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by torrent_rider

My only issue is that SATURN was billed as America's answer to imports - that GM really did have the know-how here in America to compete with the best. That GM is now rebadging Opels and importing them here is an absolute admission to this country and the world that, "No people, Americans at GM simply don't have what it takes anymore to compete and so we're just going to admit defeat, tuck tail, and let foreign compaines innovate.

Same thing with Pontiac. They were supposed to be America's answer to BMW under Lutz's new plans. Well, those plans were shelved because of GM's admission that America cannot compete.

It's not so much that GM is admitting defeat, it's that they finally realized that they have a MASSIVE amount of engineering talent being wasted by making the euro devision redo the the work the Aus and American devisions are. They pooled talents for the latest V6, and the Ecotec. It's saving them money and giving them a far better product. It's just good business practice really.

Yes, the new "Saturns" and new "Pontiacs" are good cars. Hell, I loved the GTO when it is still lambasted. However, they are not AMERICAN inventions brought about by AMERICAN innovation. Granted, everyone has a right to their own view on things. It is just me personally that I don't want to see another great American company go the way of Harley-Davidson in AMA racing when they were getting their butts kicked by the Japanese for years in a row - they quit.It is just my view that this is un-American to just so easily give up. But, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

Given the success GM has had with the Corvette in international racing, I don't think that will be a problem. I do see your point though, I rather lament the fact that every time I want to say we do produce anything good, it's actually a modified Australian design. In the case of Chrysler, German. Then of course everyones first comment when we talk about Ford is either "Bring over the Euro ones" and "It's just a Mazda with a Ford badge.

Sadly the "big 2.5" did this to themselves, they chose to hide behind a banner of "made in America" and protectionist safety laws to compete for car sales rather than innovative engineering and building a superior product.

edit: Every time I start to look at pre-smog Buicks I die a little inside. I see how we went from building such beautiful cars in those days, to shit like the 99 Buick Park Avenue, and Pontiac Grand Am or Chevy Cobalt.

[SoxXpupPeT]

OMG THOSE ARE SICK!!!!! AND GORGEOUS!!!

[Dsemaj]

Originally Posted by thedguy

edit: Every time I start to look at pre-smog Buicks I die a little inside. I see how we went from building such beautiful cars in those days, to shit like the 99 Buick Park Avenue, and Pontiac Grand Am or Chevy Cobalt.

*sets up a chair and gets some popcorn, and waits for Punisher Bass to arrive*

Should be interesting!

On topic though, I like the GXP's front clip. They should have put the SS spolier on there. The sportier Commodores look funny without them. Interesting how they've put a 6.2 LS3 in there instead of the LS2. My bet is we'll see this engine in the next Commodore to battle the FG Falcon.

[argatoga]

Originally Posted by Dsemaj

Interesting how they've put a 6.2 LS3 in there instead of the LS2. My bet is we'll see this engine in the next Commodore to battle the FG Falcon.

Isn't the LS3 the replacement of the LS2, being as it is loaded with all the fancy new stuff like displacement on demand as well as being a higher displacement block.

[Deanodriver]

Originally Posted by argatoga

Isn't the LS3 the replacement of the LS2, being as it is loaded with all the fancy new stuff like displacement on demand as well as being a higher displacement block.

Probably, but considering it's bigger than the LS2, you'd expect more power than the LS2, not less like this is (compared to the local HSV models).

Pfft, you Yanks can have the Commodore. Means Holden don't have to rely on declining local sales as much.