Auto sales plunge in face of $4 gas

[tigger]

I guess this will just force GM and Ford to hurry up with their restructuring efforts. Sounds like GM is already moving in the right direction.

Originally Posted by _HighVoltage_

I have to admit I haven't driven the new one, but after driving a 2003 Malibu I have sworn never to enter one again! It was awful in any sense of the word.

I don't know man, the new ones look really good. They start at 20k USD, 170 or 250hp, and they get decent gas mileage. I just wish that you could get one with a stick.

Originally Posted by Tobias

wtf is UAW?

The UAW is the cancer that is killing Detroit.

[edkwon]

Originally Posted by Vette Boss

This is excellent news. Good riddance to those cheap, mass-market rolling turds.

hear hear.... ppl who actually need pickups will still buy them...but the rest of those morons who just buy them for the image/style will be forced to make more sensible purchases from now on.

makes me almost happy the gas prices are so high.

[torrent_rider]

I guess non-thinking people are programmed to hate those simply not responsible for their problems. Management decised for Chrysler to submit to Daimler-Chrysler. It was management at Ford that decided to stop the idea of bringing over Europen Ford's to the US while betting their company of gas guzzling SUVs. It was GM who poo-pooed fuel efficient vehicles and green-lighted the Aztek.

Japan and Germany both have rock solid unions and socialized heathcare. Damn those pesky facts getting in the way of your dogmatic discredited wet dreams.

[argatoga]

Originally Posted by torrent_rider

I guess non-thinking people are programmed to hate those simply not responsible for their problems. Management decised for Chrysler to submit to Daimler-Chrysler. It was management at Ford that decided to stop the idea of bringing over Europen Ford's to the US while betting their company of gas guzzling SUVs. It was GM who poo-pooed fuel efficient vehicles and green-lighted the Aztek.

Japan and Germany both have rock solid unions and socialized heathcare. Damn those pesky facts getting in the way of your dogmatic discredited wet dreams.

It was Ford's UAW workers who purposely did a poor job of building the Mondeo (Contour in the U.S.) which resulted in them falling apart and not being bought over here. Both the UAW and management are responsible for the problems with American car companies. The thing is while management, for the most part, has reformed the UAW has not (see the strike which prevented the building of the new Malibu). When a company is suffering everyone must work hard and sacrifice to keep it alive, the UAW refuses to do this.

UAW is not the same as the unions in other countries, those other unions have members who actually do their job properly and as such deserve what they get.

[Blind_Io]

Back on topic for a moment: Here in Northern California (and I'm sure in other major cities) we are seeing a drop in car sales and a depression of prices for gas-guzzlers. Motorcycle sales are booming, I can hardly get on the road without seeing two or three bikes with dealer plates or guys riding older bikes but with brand new gear.

[argatoga]

Originally Posted by Blind_Io

Back on topic for a moment: Here in Northern California (and I'm sure in other major cities) we are seeing a drop in car sales and a depression of prices for gas-guzzlers. Motorcycle sales are booming, I can hardly get on the road without seeing two or three bikes with dealer plates or guys riding older bikes but with brand new gear.

Now is the time to buy gas-guzzlers if you desire one. Buy them now, it won't be too long before gas prices drop.

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by argatoga

Now is the time to buy gas-guzzlers if you desire one. Buy them now, it won't be too long before gas prices drop.

I'd be very surprised to see fuel prices drop, at least of any significance.

Originally Posted by torrent_rider

I guess non-thinking people are programmed to hate those simply not responsible for their problems. Management decised for Chrysler to submit to Daimler-Chrysler. It was management at Ford that decided to stop the idea of bringing over Europen Ford's to the US while betting their company of gas guzzling SUVs. It was GM who poo-pooed fuel efficient vehicles and green-lighted the Aztek.

I like how completely ignored spectre's points

Japan and Germany both have rock solid unions and socialized heathcare. Damn those pesky facts getting in the way of your dogmatic discredited wet dreams

Their unions also don't live in the belief of entitlement, or " La La land" where a line worker makes more than the engineers designing the products they are building.

In the case of the Japanese they also understand that if they assemble the products poorly, customers won't come back and buy cars and slowly they will put themselves out of a job.

Simply put, not everything is managements fault.

[torrent_rider]

Originally Posted by argatoga

The thing is while management, for the most part, has reformed the UAW has not (see the strike which prevented the building of the new Malibu).

I really do not understand your failure fetish. The UAW workers are still on the line making cars just like they were 4-25 years ago. What has seriously changed is MANAGEMENT and the decisions/mindset. You can continue to deny this, but more educated people who actually study the auto industry know better. UAW line-workers are the same but much of management is different now. Hate working people all you like, Your numbers are decreasing.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally Posted by torrent_rider

The UAW workers are still on the line making cars just like they were 4-25 years ago.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have identified the problem. UAW built cars poorly in the past, and they continue to do so to this day. Thankfully, the big 3 have woken up and are taking the boot to the bunch of overpaid slackasses that are the UAW.

[argatoga]

Originally Posted by torrent_rider

I really do not understand your failure fetish. The UAW workers are still on the line making cars just like they were 4-25 years ago.

Yes because American cars were well known for their construction quality 25 years ago. Read Spectre's post.

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by torrent_rider

I really do not understand your failure fetish. The UAW workers are still on the line making cars just like they were 4-25 years ago. What has seriously changed is MANAGEMENT and the decisions/mindset. You can continue to deny this, but more educated people who actually study the auto industry know better. UAW line-workers are the same but much of management is different now. Hate working people all you like, Your numbers are decreasing.

And there's the problem. You say they're still building cars like they did 25 years ago..

You mean like the GM X-car? Or the US Escort? Or the Cutlass Supreme? My family had at least one of each. Each time they were improperly built. I AM STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO EXPLAIN HOW THE SCREWED UP 2001 CORVETTE THAT MERP ON THIS FORUM OWNED IS A MANAGEMENT PROBLEM AND NOT A UAW ASSEMBLY PROBLEM!!!!!!

Originally Posted by thedguy

Their unions also don't live in the belief of entitlement, or " La La land" where a line worker makes more than the engineers designing the products they are building.

In the case of the Japanese they also understand that if they assemble the products poorly, customers won't come back and buy cars and slowly they will put themselves out of a job.

Simply put, not everything is managements fault.

The British unions have the same entitlement fetish that the US ones do. However, theirs has been severely curtailed by their continued failure and declining numbers.

Here's a case in point. A couple of years back, when Jaguar was posting BILLION DOLLAR PLUS annual losses, the Jaguar union demanded more money. Ford asked them not to, pointed to the fact that these idiots were progressively producing less and less quality work, and that sales were way down. The union just did not care and demanded that they be the highest paid auto workers in Europe, because they "worked for Jaguar, the finest name in Europe." Well, they got what they wanted... and then Ford fired most of them when they were forced to close THE ORIGINAL PLANT AND OFFICES due to lack of money.

Yes, that's right, the idiot union is why Jaguar is no longer in Coventry. Surprise!

Now the union in Britain are uncertain and are far more cautious about asking for money from unprofitable divisions.

Between the above and the real lemons cranked out by the UAW that I've had foisted off on me over the years, is it any wonder why I think the UAW needs to die in a fire?

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by torrent_rider

I really do not understand your failure fetish. The UAW workers are still on the line making cars just like they were 4-25 years ago. What has seriously changed is MANAGEMENT and the decisions/mindset. You can continue to deny this, but more educated people who actually study the auto industry know better. UAW line-workers are the same but much of management is different now. Hate working people all you like, Your numbers are decreasing.

Explains why the "big 3" have been trying to get rid of all the old UAW workers, besides the fact that their way over paid for what they do.

[Hiro11]

Originally Posted by thedguy

Explains why the "big 3" have been trying to get rid of all the old UAW workers, besides the fact that their way over paid for what they do.

Basic fact: you can't pay unskilled laborers $85K a year to do some light spot-welding or tighten a few bolts and make a profit.

Also, good riddance to pick-ups and SUVs. It demonstrates that the main reason they were so popular here, as opposed to the rest of the world, was because of the relatively extremely low price of gas in the US. Price of gas rises and pick-up/SUV sales tank. What do you know, maybe there is something to this whole economics thing.

[Kiwiguy]

What I can't understand is how the F150 managed to be the top selling verhicle every month for 17 years!? Do that many people really need a truck with a flatbed? Would have been slightly more understandable if it was an SUV that could actually fit people in it comfortably... (abhorent though SUV's are). I've only ever seen an F150 once when I was living in Australia. Someone must have privately imported it.

[Spectre]

The F-150 has a pickup bed, not a flatbed.

It's cheap, it's sturdy, and companies buy zillions of them a year. Or they used to. I suspect that the downturn in F-series sales is due to the economy more than just the price of gas - companies holding on to their older trucks instead of trading them in based on time in service, etc., etc.

[Kiwiguy]

Ah sorry, pickup bed. We say flatbed. But then we call them utes anyway

[chaos386]

Originally Posted by Blind_Io

Back on topic for a moment: Here in Northern California (and I'm sure in other major cities) we are seeing a drop in car sales and a depression of prices for gas-guzzlers. Motorcycle sales are booming, I can hardly get on the road without seeing two or three bikes with dealer plates or guys riding older bikes but with brand new gear.

Sounds like a great thing to me. Not only are they saving fuel, but they're taking up a heck of a lot less room on the road.

Dammit Blind! Now you've got me on the Honda website looking at scooters.

[gtrietsc]

Our F-150 has been a great vehicle. We use it for towing our boat, hauling large things home from the store, and its my daily driver. Its quiet, dependable, and good looking, IMO. I wish it got better gas mileage, but you cant have everything.

I think the decline in SUV sales and trucks sales is very much due to gas prices. We will keep our truck despite $4 a gallon gas, but may look into a cheap motorcycle or beater car for my commute, which is about 15 miles each way. I am also trying to work from home at least one day a week to save the fuel as well.

And I know on this board there are people way against SUVs, but there are a bunch of people who need the space, and dont want to drive a minivan - or need the space but also the towing capacity an SUV affords them.

[prizrak]

Originally Posted by gtrietsc

Our F-150 has been a great vehicle. We use it for towing our boat, hauling large things home from the store, and its my daily driver. Its quiet, dependable, and good looking, IMO. I wish it got better gas mileage, but you cant have everything.

I think the decline in SUV sales and trucks sales is very much due to gas prices. We will keep our truck despite $4 a gallon gas, but may look into a cheap motorcycle or beater car for my commute, which is about 15 miles each way. I am also trying to work from home at least one day a week to save the fuel as well.

And I know on this board there are people way against SUVs, but there are a bunch of people who need the space, and dont want to drive a minivan - or need the space but also the towing capacity an SUV affords them.

For me at least, the thing is that SUV's are absolutely useless to about 90% of those who drive them. For the most part, they don't go offroad, have that much cargo/passengers, or haul stuff. For the most part everything that is done with an SUV by 90% of people can be done with a normal sedan or wagon/estate.

This is basically why people stopped buying them, they offer no utility for their particular use cases and consume fuel like crazy. The people who do need such vehicles will of course keep on buying them but again not that many need them.

[gtrietsc]

The gotcha is overcoming the social stigma that comes with having a wagon or sedan here in America. For some, $4/gal is that point. For others, its not.

I forgot to mention another thing I like about my truck - high visibility. I can usually see through the car or truck in front of me, which gives me an advantage in avoiding collisions, abrupt lane changes, or objects in the roadway. In my GTO this was quite the opposite.