BMW 335d to hit US shores by fall

[edkwon]

http://jalopnik.com/398098/diesel-bm...shores-by-fall

Hearing our pleas, we're being told BMW will be bringing the diesel 3-series to the US in the coming months. As proof, we've got shots from our spy friends at KGP of the oil-burning BMW doing some final testing on American soil as well shots of it at the green-handled pump. The 2009 BMW 335d should feature a slightly lower level of performance compared to the European turbodiesel, but that still means 265 HP and 425 lb-ft of torque. This should result in a 0-to-60 MPH time of around 6.2 seconds while getting a rumored 23 MPG city / 33 MPG highway. Full spy report below the jump.

Ok sorry, but i'm a bit dissapointed by those estimate mpg numbers, a bit below what i was expecting for a diesel. And its not that much higher than the petrol powered version which are of course, MUCH faster.

What further hurts is i've spoken to a couple different local high volume BMW dealerships in my area, and the salesppl were pretty honest with me and said, because of the increased demand for perceived fuel efficient cars these days in the US, the dealerships are likely putting a $5-6K markup on the cars (just like toyota dealers are doing with the Prius because of the overwhelming demand) and yes, its a ripoff, but ppl in my area have a enough money that they will stupidly spend more up front just so they can see less being spent at the pump and feel better about themselves.

I figure a $5-6K markup will take at least 4-5 years of normal driving to recoup THAT loss before you even begin to start saving $$ from fuel costs.

After seeing these numbers, i'm saying screw it and getting a regular 335i or M3 as my next car in a couple years.

[thedguy]

BMW doesn't know how to make fuel efficient cars. Why do you think they cried to the NHTSA about wanting exemption from the new CAFE regs?

BTW, if I'm not mistaken there have always been complaints of diesels being pointless due to their already higher buy in costs (not including the dealer markups). So you're likely talking closer to 10+ years to get your money back, if that ever happens. You're essentially trading paying a shitload to the oil company to paying a shitload to the dealer/manufacturer.

[the Interceptor]

Sorry, but I don't see how that mpg figure is bad. My dads 138 hp 4-pot diesel averages 36 mpg overall (mostly Autobahn, bit of city). Remember BMWs 335d this is a six cylinder diesel wil 265 hp. Therefore, I don't find 23/33 that bad. I mean after all the power has to come from somewhere. And this certainly is no vehicle to ultimately save fuel.

[efoolution]

Originally Posted by thedguy

[...]You're essentially trading paying a shitload to the oil company to paying a shitload to the dealer/manufacturer.

... time to choose who you like more ... or who is the lesser of two evils ...





choose wisley.

[m4v1s]

Dear auto manufacturers, Senators, Congress members and auto dealerships,

WE WANT SMALL DIESELS

-Every driver in the United States of America

[KaJuN]

I really hope this car does well. We're seriously lagging behind the rest of the world when it comes to efficient transportation. I've never been able to work out why we're so anti-diesel. You get more out of it than with petrol and the infrastructure is already there. We're insane for not taking advantage of it.

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by m4v1s

Dear auto manufacturers, Senators, Congress members and auto dealerships,

WE WANT FUEL EFFICIENT, FUN TO DRIVE, RWD, and INEXPENSIVE DIESELS

-Every driver in the United States of America

Fixed.

[Ottobon]

Originally Posted by efoolution

... time to choose who you like more ... or who is the lesser of two evils ...





choose wisley.

HELL YEAH!! Lederhosen are kickass!!!, I'll pay to support that, just not through a BMW 335d.

Originally Posted by the Interceptor

Sorry, but I don't see how that mpg figure is bad. My dads 138 hp 4-pot diesel averages 36 mpg overall (mostly Autobahn, bit of city). Remember BMWs 335d this is a six cylinder diesel wil 265 hp. Therefore, I don't find 23/33 that bad. I mean after all the power has to come from somewhere. And this certainly is no vehicle to ultimately save fuel.

It is terrible!! I'm not a huge corvette fanboy, but as I and many others have said 1000 times, the Z06 manages near 30mpg with 505hp. So how come when you half the power you only get a 10% increase in a engine design that by all means has much less in the way of pumping losses

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by Ottobon

It is terrible!! I'm not a huge corvette fanboy, but as I and many others have said 1000 times, the Z06 manages near 30mpg with 505hp. So how come when you half the power you only get a 10% increase in a engine design that by all means has much less in the way of pumping losses

Using a much more powerful fuel. Part of the corvette's advantage is it's near 800lbs reduction in weight.

[edkwon]

Originally Posted by the Interceptor

Sorry, but I don't see how that mpg figure is bad. My dads 138 hp 4-pot diesel averages 36 mpg overall (mostly Autobahn, bit of city). Remember BMWs 335d this is a six cylinder diesel wil 265 hp. Therefore, I don't find 23/33 that bad. I mean after all the power has to come from somewhere. And this certainly is no vehicle to ultimately save fuel.

In the US, the EPA ratings for the 335i is 20 mpg city/29 mpg highway, compare that to BMWs quote 23/33 for the US diesel, i'm sorry, but don't you think that estimated improvement is a bit of a joke? esp when you give up the performance of a petrol/gas powered engine and take the weight penalty of a heavy iron diesel block?

[Hidden_Hunter]

Originally Posted by thedguy

Fixed.

The Commodore (or g8 to you americans) is getting a diesel here so that might fulfil your needs.

[the Interceptor]

Originally Posted by Ottobon

It is terrible!! I'm not a huge corvette fanboy, but as I and many others have said 1000 times, the Z06 manages near 30mpg with 505hp. So how come when you half the power you only get a 10% increase in a engine design that by all means has much less in the way of pumping losses

The excellent mpg figure of the Corvette mostly is down to the comparably low weight and especially the long gearbox. Remember 6th gear is solely made for coasting along on highways at extremely low revs.
Additionally, I've never seen a quote of 30 mpg on a Corvette. All reviews I've seen were talking about 16-18 mpg. You sure can get 30 mpg out of the corvette, but then with the right driving, I can get 42.7 mpg instead of 28 mpg out of my Bimmer.

Originally Posted by edkwon

In the US, the EPA ratings for the 335i is 20 mpg city/29 mpg highway, compare that to BMWs quote 23/33 for the US diesel, i'm sorry, but don't you think that estimated improvement is a bit of a joke? esp when you give up the performance of a petrol/gas powered engine and take the weight penalty of a heavy iron diesel block?

The mpg advantage of the 335d compared to the 335i is pretty slim, I give you that. But you're not exactly giving up much performance, as the 335d is not a slow car.

What you have to take into account are two things: people buy diesels in Germany because diesel fuel is (or used to be) much cheaper than all other fuels, and your average mpg on the Autobahn will be much better. On the other hand ... if I were asked which BMW diesel I'd bring to the US, it most likely wouldn't be the x35d. I'd have brought a smaller one that has better economy. But like I said, the overall economy of the 335d is absolutely on par with other diesels. I mean hey, it's the most powerful production six cylinder diesel in the world, so it's gonna use some fuel.

[NooDle]

weird... us Euros get the same car with more power and less mpg (286 hp/37 mpg).
What's in your diesel that makes it less powerful and more wasteful?

And yeah, what Interceptor said : diesel is a lot cheaper to buy here, and the cost of the car is roughly the same
cheaper fuel + better mileage = double win.

In Belgium the fuel itself is 30% cheaper alone, and I use 15-20% less fuel than I did with my ecobox VW Polo with its miserable 1.4 engine.

Now I have a largeish 2.2l turbodiesel with more than twice the horsepowerage of the previous car (130 hp v 60 hp), yet I get a lot better fuel economy and more money in my pocket at the end of the month

triple win for diesel!

[Spectre]

The difference is that we have stricter emissions standards, which tend to lower power output for both diesels and gassers.

[Hidden_Hunter]

Originally Posted by NooDle

weird... us Euros get the same car with more power and less mpg (286 hp/37 mpg).
What's in your diesel that makes it less powerful and more wasteful?

And yeah, what Interceptor said : diesel is a lot cheaper to buy here, and the cost of the car is roughly the same
cheaper fuel + better mileage = double win.

In Belgium the fuel itself is 30% cheaper alone, and I use 15-20% less fuel than I did with my ecobox VW Polo with its miserable 1.4 engine.

Now I have a largeish 2.2l turbodiesel with more than twice the horsepowerage of the previous car (130 hp v 60 hp), yet I get a lot better fuel economy and more money in my pocket at the end of the month

triple win for diesel!

as has been pointed out on numerous occasions diesel cars in America and AU are usually a total waste of time because a) a diesel version costs more to buy b) the diesel is consistently 20%+ higher in cost to buy.

4wd's make more sense on diesel because they're usually fairly thirsty so in that case it makes more sense to use a diesel, for a passanger car it makes just about 0 sense 99% of the time.

[Spectre]

Yup... and the cheaper diesel prices in Europe are due to the fact that petrol is taxed out the arse and diesel isn't. When Europe's politicians start realizing that gas tax revenues are down because of the ongoing switch to diesel, I suspect that diesel will also be taxed out the arse... which will render diesels questionable in that theatre as well.

[the Interceptor]

Originally Posted by Spectre

Yup... and the cheaper diesel prices in Europe are due to the fact that petrol is taxed out the arse and diesel isn't. When Europe's politicians start realizing that gas tax revenues are down because of the ongoing switch to diesel, I suspect that diesel will also be taxed out the arse... which will render diesels questionable in that theatre as well.

On the other hand, the road taxes for diesels are much higher than for petrol cars here. So driving a diesel only works out when you drive quite a lot.

Some figures:

335i (petrol): 195.75 Euros a year
335d (diesel): 447.76 Euros a year

[Spectre]

Here, there's no difference in "road tax" (in general - keep in mind we have 50 states, some of which do some strange things with taxes and fees) between a gasser and diesel.

For example, my "road tax" for each of my cars is something like $54. Wouldn't be any different if I had a diesel. The only difference I can think of is the inspection fee. Since there is no good way to emissions check a diesel, it doesn't have to have a sniffer test, so it gets away with a $14 safety-only inspection as opposed to a gasser's safety+emissions check at $40.

That, however, does not apply to California, evidently. My father's 1996 XJ12 is in Dallas for repaint (yes, you read that right - it's cheaper to ship a car halfway across a continent, get it repainted by a true artist/craftsman, and ship it back to California than it is to have it properly repainted in state) , and his bi-annual "road tax" is in excess of $700. I took a look at his receipt and there's all SORTS of bizarre line items on it, and I think one of them was a diesel tax - which didn't apply to the XJ12, of course.

[NooDle]

Yeah it's true that for you guys a diesel only makes sense if you drive a bajillion miles a year

yet, they are shipping the 335d to America so there must be some demand for it...
Why would anyone buy them if they're THAT much more expensive? Novelty value? Being different? Supposed eco friendlyness?

[Spectre]

Supposed ecofriendliness and to follow the trend. Also, I suspect they're trying to get their corporate average fuel economy up so they don't have to pay huge penalties.

Finally, BMW is the only one of the big German makers that doesn't have some form of diesel in the US or on the way. (I'm counting Porsche as part of VAG.)