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#61 |
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I'm sorry but saving Opel at all cost would be against the principle of a free market. Sooner or later competitors (and I'm not thinking of VW in the first place) will complain or even sue against the federal support of Opel. I'm amazed by their patience already in this whole affair.
If a company cannot survive on its own -- no matter who's fault it is --, it must be allowed to go bankrupt. Otherwise the trust in our economical system will sustain damage and that would have much more severe results, than losing a few thousand jobs. Last edited by MacGuffin; November 6th, 2009 at 10:06 PM. |
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#62 |
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Joined: Mar 21st, 2006
Last Online: 3:20 AM
Location: Southampton
Posts: 8,597
Car: Vauxhall Zafira 1.9 TDI Slush box.
Rep Power: 126
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Bottom of the market - low cost far east competition, mid market Japanese and other Euros + EURO Ford, top of the Market specialist brands and, if they do not muck it up, Mercedes - no where for them to go.
Still I have a Vauxhall myself and you know what, it is an OK car. Does the job it was intended for - you can not race it or drift it but it is tough and reliable and cheap to own. /EDIT Corsa's problem is the new Fiesta - wonderful car.
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Lotus 7 Registration Mark = KAR120C : Engine Number = 461034 TZ Ross Brawn genius or what? Last edited by Cobol74; November 7th, 2009 at 12:29 AM. |
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#63 |
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Joined: Dec 19th, 2005
Last Online: November 20th, 2009
Location: La Suède
Posts: 2,233
Car: 2007 Astra Diesel
Rep Power: 79
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Comparing VW and Opel workers and saying one is more competent than another is both wrong and completely irrelevant, the assembly line staff does not design the car or decide how much it's going to cost. So skipping the last page which had little content, I note that Carl Peter Forster quits. I can very well understand why, but it's unfortunate as he is one of the few executives GM has that actually understands cars.
Looking at sales numbers, Opel Corsa is the 4th best selling car in Europe with 270 634 units in the first nine months. The Astra H is still the 10th best selling car with 210 463 units. Opels problem is not selling cars, Opels problem is GM.
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#64 |
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Joined: Jun 28th, 2009
Last Online: 5:29 AM
Location: Québec,Québec,Canada
Posts: 228
Car: mazda 3 2008(dad's car)/2009 intense bmx
Rep Power: 9
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So who want to help me kidnapp Bob Maximun Lutz and force him to sell opel to magna ? That would make everyone happy ?
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Founder of the Muse Fan group of Final Gear '' Every time ferrai formula one team is going badly, their road car are brillant'' Jeremy clarckson Why does McLAREN always have to copy what Ferrari is doing ?? finally i know alot use it but anyway «Like smearing honey into Keira Knightley» Jeremy Clarckson |
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#65 | ||
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Quote:
It seems like they have some kind of seminar, where they are taught how to argue with VW/Audi drivers. It sometimes has the touch of religious missionaries.I once had a colleague who's brother had an Opel dealership. Unfortunately we were car-pooling and you cannot even start to imagine how much propaganda that guy tried to spread over me, just because I was driving an old Audi at the time. Even though my first two cars were Opels, that bloke ruined it for me forever by talking BS all the way to work and back in his Opel Omega (Vauxhall Carlton for our British friends). Quote:
They have the new Astra now. Good. But it will soon have to deal with the Golf VII. So it also comes too late. The Corsa is now up against the new Polo and the new Fiesta, which are both much better cars. And the Polo for the first time has the potential to really become the no. 1 in all of Europe and not only Germany. And the rest of the Opel range isn't competitive anymore, because it's old. In order to really catch up, there is more -- much, much more -- money necessary, than the 4.5 billion GM wants to get from the German government for restructuring Opel. Then there is the Chevrolet problem. GM has established the former Daewoo brand as a cheap car alternative on a worldwide scale, while Opel was forced to remain a localized European brand and has to compete with Chevrolet in the very same showrooms here. And because you can buy Chevrolets at Opel dealers, they become more and more popular. Not good for Opel. Opel needs to be present on all markets worldwide under fair conditions, with an up to date and complete model range to be successful. And it just isn't. What comes after the Astra? Is there another new car in the pipeline? Not that I know of. Meanwhile car rentals have stopped ordering Opels a year ago already, because they have no idea if they get rid of the cars again in half a year or so. EuropCar alone has not renewed its fleet of 6000 Opels but only a fraction of it! I know, because I tried to get my hands on an Insignia but it's no use. And rentals are a major factor, when it comes to advertising/presenting new cars to the public. Then there is the worldwide overcapacity of cars. Someone's got to give and currently Opel is the weakest link, being owned by a larger company that is still unfit for survival itself and has yet to find a way to exist in the coming years. The more you look into it, the more hopeless it becomes. Opel is still in a downward spiral and it will take more effort to save the brand, than GM is obviously willing to invest into Opel. Not that it would have been much better with Magna, mind you... I fear there are more of his kind, where he came from... Last edited by MacGuffin; November 7th, 2009 at 11:31 AM. |
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#66 |
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Joined: Jul 8th, 2008
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,462
Car: 1979 Opel Kadett (Oliver's Son)
Rep Power: 70
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Dear Audi V6, i think you completely lost any perspective here. Even in other first world countries like the USA, losing your job means losing your health insurance and can easily mean losing your home. And even that's not bad. In most parts of this world, you'll starve if you have a job or not. You realise that even adjusted to local spending capacity, german Hartz IV is more than more than half the people on this planet make in a year?
I don't say losing your job is cool (living off next to nothing right now, i know how it is) but certainly it's not the end of the world and everyone who questions germany being one of the richest countries in the world should certainly be more grateful. EDIT: Even if one assumes a responsibility of a government for the welfare of the people -which many people won't even accept, thinking the government shold offer protection from crime and leave them alone elsewhere- this responsibility is for the welfare of the society as a whole. This means that even if 10000 lost jobs are not nothing and it's hard for every single worker affected and his/her family, it's still not enough to dump billions of euros in government money into keeping this jobs alive while the market can't sustain them. Not because capitalism is wonderful or because no one cares for these people, but because regarding the overall welfare of society, this money could be used much better for education or something else where more than a few people profit from it. Opel as it is right now is a bottomless barrel where you can dump endless amouts of government money into instead of putting it to better use (and be it financing Hartz IV for Opel's ex-workforce). On-Topic reply will be added later today.
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I got a Rolls-Royce 'Cause it's good for my voice (Mark Bolan/T-Rex) Last edited by Dr_Grip; November 7th, 2009 at 11:07 AM. |
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#67 | |
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#68 |
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Joined: Mar 21st, 2006
Last Online: 3:20 AM
Location: Southampton
Posts: 8,597
Car: Vauxhall Zafira 1.9 TDI Slush box.
Rep Power: 126
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Its not a Cell Phone it's a Mobile phone - are you Europeans or not? If not, get out of the EU and clear off with you yankee chums!
![]() NB Hyperbole.
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Lotus 7 Registration Mark = KAR120C : Engine Number = 461034 TZ Ross Brawn genius or what? |
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#69 |
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Actually it's called a "handy" here
We didn't have a German name for it, so we created a faked English name for it
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#70 |
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Joined: Mar 21st, 2006
Last Online: 3:20 AM
Location: Southampton
Posts: 8,597
Car: Vauxhall Zafira 1.9 TDI Slush box.
Rep Power: 126
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Handy - that is an OK name I think.
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Lotus 7 Registration Mark = KAR120C : Engine Number = 461034 TZ Ross Brawn genius or what? Last edited by Cobol74; November 7th, 2009 at 11:16 AM. |
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#71 | |
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Can't Start His Wank
Joined: Oct 4th, 2005
Last Online: 6:43 AM
Location: Washington State, USA
Age: 26
Posts: 4,793
Car: '78 MG Midget, '78 Honda CB400t
Rep Power: 164
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http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/08/r...opel-chairman/
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![]() "If you think about it breast implants aren't much different than braces. Their main purpose is to improve one's appearance, at least that's how it was in my case." - KaJun "Anyway, I'm off to eat my dick" - Austere |
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#72 | |
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Ik ben niet alleen lekker met kaas!
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In a way they should have died ages ago, and in another way they don't deserve to die now. They did show they can turn around. Also, isn't Opel the only thing that GM currently has that's actually still selling anything worth mentioning? It'd be like having only a broken leg and a working leg and going "I'll cut the good one off so I can save my broken one". True, but over here atleast it is much more expensive. And cheap stuff still sells. See also above. If they had the money from GM I think they could be on their way to making classbeating cars. |
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#73 | |
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This week's SPIEGEL magazine editorial:
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