Rumour Mill: Gm to halt plans on Volt- lay-offs this week?

[argatoga]

Originally Posted by Spectre

Another good reason to avoid Fords - the 2V SOHC 4.6L plastic intake manifold problem, the one where it cracked and failed and spewed coolant all over the place. And then, when it was clear that ALL the 4.6L SOHC 2V pre-PI cars had this problem, Ford would only fix it for fleet customers, not for the average Joe with a dead car. If it happened in warranty, Ford would claim that the car had been abused and deny warranty coverage. Nice, huh?

Something to look forward to. Though I have seen quite a few pre-PI cars like mine running around so I don't think it is a major issue. Still not an excuse for Ford to let it go. Ford's warranty department was truly fucked at the time. Look at the V8 SHOs that ate themselves (yes it was a fault with Yamaha's design, but it was fixable and recall worthy).

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by argatoga

Something to look forward to. Though I have seen quite a few pre-PI cars like mine running around so I don't think it is a major issue. Still not an excuse for Ford to let it go. Ford's warranty department was truly fucked at the time. Look at the V8 SHOs that ate themselves (yes it was a fault with Yamaha's design, but it was fixable and recall worthy).

Big enough that Ford got sued and settled rather than open themselves up to a lot more lawsuits.

http://www.fordmanifoldsettlement.com/

Also, Ford's still fighting lawsuits about the ongoing sparkplug ejection problems on the modular motors.

[Karoug]

^So it's not just Volvo that has problems with their sparkplugs?

[MattD1zzl3]

Originally Posted by Ezbok58a

Ah the beloved Optispark...

*evil glare*

[Ezbok58a]

Originally Posted by Spectre

Big enough that Ford got sued and settled rather than open themselves up to a lot more lawsuits.

http://www.fordmanifoldsettlement.com/

Also, Ford's still fighting lawsuits about the ongoing sparkplug ejection problems on the modular motors.

The all plastic intake lasted through 2002 before they got aluminum crossovers (glad I got a 04...)

5.4l V8s up until about 04 or so used to constantly blow the plugs out, usually resulting in rethreading the hole...

Most commonly happened with the Lightnings till 04 when they added more threads to the hole, although several 04-08 trucks still spit plugs just not as often...

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by Spectre

Are you also forgetting the fact that every Ford truck from 1992-on has a distressing tendency to set itself on fire? Followed by the Duraspark boxes that didn't? And the astounding shittiness that was the ovoid Tauri? Let's also not forget the headgasket destroying 3.8L Ford V6, the wretched for AXOD, which WOULDN'T go 80K on a regular basis, and those really awful "pleather" Mercury interiors.

Nobody is pretending that Chrysler was perfect. They were, however, the best of the Big Three at the time of the takeover.

It's amazing how many Ford Tauri I found on craigslists from the late 90's that had rebuilt transmissions with 80k or more. Every mazda from the 90's that owners said "complete pile of shit" all had the Ford automatic transaxles...

[MacGuffin]

It seems like the Ford management finally had a glimpse of understanding. Obviously Alan Mullaly recently told the "Detroit News":

"We will only stay in business, if we make cars that fascinate the customers and make them want to buy them."

[Spectre]

Mullally is a transplant from Boeing. He knows all about the idea of compelling product. The quote you posted is in the context of him announcing that unlike GM, Ford is NOT going to delay or kill the import or development of new models.


That said, why wasn't Detroit figuring out that product is king back around, oh, the 1980s?

[MacGuffin]

Originally Posted by Spectre

That said, why wasn't Detroit figuring out that product is king back around, oh, the 1980s?

That is exactly the point, isn't it? No matter what context the quote was taken from, it is a bit too late for such remorse. Therefore it simply is a funny remark.

I remember how not even half a year ago people were attacked in this forum, when they dared saying that the future of automobiles in America does not lie with big SUV's and pick-up trucks...

Now everyone is praying that GM and the others are able to bring out competitive, reasonably sized, economical cars, before it is too late.

How things can change...

Not that I believe that GM, Ford or Chrysler will be able to survive on their own, mind you... They will die. The only question is: This year or next year?

[Spectre]

I don't recall saying (or even seeing) anything about how SUVs and pickups were the future of automobiles in the US. Please provide evidence that someone said this on this forum.

In any case, I still remain an advocate of a well balanced broad product offering for most of the main-line marques in the USA. You can't neglect trucks, but you also can't neglect the rest of the product line in favor of trucks. Something like Toyota's US lineup (perhaps minus a couple of SUVs) is best... which is probably why Toyota is the #1 automaker in the US now....

[MacGuffin]

I don't refer to specific posts, I'm referring to a certain mood back then. Or at least how I perceived it.

The rest I agree with you. But there has been a certain fixation on big, heavy vehicles, which you cannot deny.

I must admit, though, that I didn't expect things to go as bad as quickly as they are now. I would have estimated 2010, maybe 2011, but the current financial crisis sped everything up, focussing all the problems together like a burning glass, searing away everything that has weak foundations in the process.

And we are not yet at the rock-bottom. That will come during the next year.

[Ezbok58a]

Originally Posted by Spectre

That said, why wasn't Detroit figuring out that product is king back around, oh, the 1980s?

Does the Ford Taurus ring a bell?

Fords number 1 selling car in this country (Number 1 car in america actually) that lasted till 1996 when Ford themselves got carried away with ovals...

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by Ezbok58a

Does the Ford Taurus ring a bell?

Fords number 1 selling car in this country (Number 1 car in america actually) that lasted till 1996 when Ford themselves got carried away with ovals...

Um, no.

You're smoking something. The Accord was tops from 89 to 91.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...pagewanted=all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_in_motoring

"Meanwhile, the current Accord was this year's best selling car in America."

With the 92 restyle, the Taurus got the best-selling crown back, but it only held it for 5 years and then only because of the vast fleet sales. If you discounted the captive sales to Ford's rental car companies, the Accord had the lead, then the Camry. By 98, the Camry had the overall lead even without Camry fleet sales and that was all she wrote. The last time a domestic was in lead position was 1997, over 10 years ago.

[MacGuffin]

German automaker Opel, a subsidiary of the existentially threatened American firm General Motors, is trying to get the German government to secure its future. Its request raises a number of prickly issues.

Executives from troubled automaker Opel are attending emergency meetings with German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Monday in a bid to negotiate €2 billion in government loan guarantees. Opel, which since 1929 has operated as a subsidiary of Detroit-based General Motors (GM), is trying to take steps to protect itself from disaster should its American parent company be forced to declare bankruptcy.

As GM teeters on the edge of financial oblivion, many in Germany are worried it might take Opel down with it. Back in April, before the world sunk into what many consider the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression, GM pledged to invest €9 billion euros in Opel through 2012 with the goal of developing 20 new car models. But now, as GM tries to negotiate its own emergency bailout from the US government, that pledge is looking increasingly shaky.

If GM were to file for chapter 11 bankruptcy, it would free itself from a range of debt obligations. It could further result in the transfer of a number of contracts from Opel's development center in Rüsselheim to centers in Michigan, where GM is based. According to Deutsche Bank analyst Rod Lache, as things now stand GM can only continue to finance itself through December.

Opel, which targets low-income buyers, has been especially hard hit by a drop-off in consumer demand. Its sales have dropped 12 percent this year -- twice the industry average -- and it has been forced to temporarily halt production at several plants. Still, the unit is in considerably better shape than its American parent. Opel's General Works Council Chairman Klaus Franz insisted on a German news show on Sunday: "Opel is doing well, Opel is liquid, period!" The automaker directly employs over 25,000 people in Germany and is indirectly responsible for an additional 50,000 jobs.

Detroit 's Gravitational Field

Opel is seeking €1 billion in loan guarantees from Germany's federal government and an additional €1 billion from four German states to ensure that its ambitious development plans go forward. At issue, however, is whether Opel can guarantee that funding made available by the German government would stay in Germany and not be sucked back into the wider financial black hole of General Motors.

Although Opel insisted last Friday that state aid would "under no circumstances" be used outside of Europe, their request for assistance raises special concerns about how and whether a national government should bailout a subsidiary owned by a foreign multinational. German Economy Minister Michael Glos emphasized on a Sunday news show that the government "needs to know whether the money will stay in Germany." He is far from alone with his concerns. Armin Schild, a union leader with IG Metall, told the Berliner Zeitung on Monday that any assistance for Opel should be contingent on the funding be used to keep plants open in Germany and thereby guarantee the jobs of German workers.

Managers at Opel would ideally like to see the unit spun-off from GM, a move which would decisively disentangle the company from the financial and political dramas unfolding in Detroit. German politicians and union leaders like Armin Schild also support the idea. Schild declared on Monday that GM must "let Opel go free."

That, though, would be difficult. When GM took over Opel in 1929, the German carmaker was itself on the brink of bankruptcy. In the decades since being saved by GM, the two companies have become intimately intertwined. Opel develops cars for all parts of the GM empire, contributing technical know-how not only to the production of vehicles in the American and European markets but also, for instance, for the South Korean subsidiary Daewoo. Further complicating a separation is the fact that prevailing market conditions would make it difficult to find a buyer.

"A Bottomless Pit"

Opel's efforts to secure government assistance have triggered controversy in Germany, sparking fears among economic liberals that helping one company could force the government to undertake a general bailout of the German auto industry. Indeed, Roland Koch, governor of the German state of Hesse where Opel is based, has called for a "protective shield" for the entire auto sector.

Finance Minister Peer Steinbrück announced his opposition to a general bailout on Monday, telling Bild newspaper on Monday that a such a plan "doesn't make any sense." Steinbrück argued that the government couldn't do anything about the decline in consumer purchasing power, which lies at the heart of the auto industry's woes, and that it shouldn't make itself responsible for the "errors" committed by the auto companies.

Klaus Zimmerman, a well-known neoliberal analyst with the German Insitute for Economic Research told the Berliner Zeitung that devoting tax-payer funds to an industry-wide bailout would be like throwing money into a "bottomless pit," adding that directing money at Opel would only make sense in the event of an actual GM bankruptcy.

Still, the government could decide to help Opel while refraining from taking any industry-wide steps. Economy Minister Michael Glos, appearing on a Sunday news show, evinced considerable sympathy for Opel even while sounding skeptical about a more general bailout. Glos nostalgically recalled that his own first car was an Opel and that his grandfather had driven one before World War II. Glos acknowledged that the global auto industry finds itself in serious trouble due to a fall-off in global demand, but said it "wasn't clear" why "Opel, of all companies, ought to pay the price."

Let the Campaigning Begin

Opel's misfortunes, along with the wider crisis engulfing the German auto industry, are sure to become campaign issues as Germany's political class gears up for the 2009 parliamentary elections.

While Angela Merkel meets with Opel executives Monday afternoon, German Foreign Minister Walter Steinmeier, a Social Democrat and the party's candidate for Chancellor, will be holding his own meetings with union leaders representing Opel workers. Steinmeier has declared that workers in the German auto industry will "not be left on their own," and seems to favor a more interventionist approach.

Steinmeier's meeting has raised a few eyebrows. Ronald Pofalla, general secretary for Chancellor Merkel's center-right Christian Democratic Party, told the German press agency DPA that Steinmeier's portfolio does not include economic policy and that he had no business conducting such a meeting in the foreign ministry. The ministry countered that no branch of the economy is as internationally embedded as the auto industry. Whether GM's meltdown becomes a crisis large enough to actually warrant diplomatic intervention remains to be seen in the weeks ahead.

cpg -- with wire reports

Source: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...590906,00.html