Hyundai S-Cla...LS.....Genesis.

[TomCat]

The Genesis Coupe with a turbo 4 and 6 speed manual sounds very tempting as well.

[Momentum57]

I have to say the stats on these cars always look good and the the cars drive well but again its just a copy of a copy of a copy. Nothing wrong with it, you can see it, its not a bad copy, but its just like ordering a number 4 off the Mcboard. Why not spend a bit more for a eclipse or instead of the Genesis just order up any number of other cars.

Again its not that they are bad cars just forgettable the kinda of car I would buy for my company to fill out the fleet rather than chose anything risky

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by Momentum57

I have to say the stats on these cars always look good and the the cars drive well but again its just a copy of a copy of a copy. Nothing wrong with it, you can see it, its not a bad copy, but its just like ordering a number 4 off the Mcboard. Why not spend a bit more for a eclipse or instead of the Genesis just order up any number of other cars.

And you bought a what, again? An X-Type? A downsized copy of the X308, which was a copy of the Series III, except it's really a Mondeo, which in Europe IS #4 off the McBoard.

Congratulations, you paid WAY too much for a Mondeo. So, why didn't you spend a bit more (or rather less, because the X-Type is overpriced) to get something like an Eclipse or something interesting?

Again its not that they are bad cars just forgettable the kinda of car I would buy for my company to fill out the fleet rather than chose anything risky

This from the guy that bought one of the ultimate fleet specials. I think you should be disqualified from commenting on this thread.

[bartboy9891]

Originally Posted by Shawn

Fair enough, I see where you're coming from. I'm not really offended as a Lexus owner... if I wanted the standard choice I'd have gone 3er or A4.

But Lexus does pretty well I think if you actually drive one. Their mid-range cars are the best I think... they fall a little short in LS vs. competition, and a whole lot in SC vs. competition IMO. And the ES is just flaky.

About this new Genesis though, is the coupe thing gonna have the same badging? Then I guess Genesis itself is kind of a new marque they could spin-off in a few years.

Being Indian, my family knows many people that own Lexuses. I've been in various generations of the RX, GX, LX, ES, GS and LS. Though I've only driven a few different ES's.

The badging seen on the Genesis sedan is only present in Korea. Whether the "Genesis" brand will become the luxury division of Hyundai or not, I don't know. But if that's their plan, then the coupe will probably be called something else in Korea. According to Wikipedia, Hyundai won't sell the Genesis sedan in Europe because Lexus failed to make an impact there. So the Genesis sedan will only be sold in Korea, China and North America.

[Luca]

edmunds insideline recently reviewed it.... I quite like it

+ YouTube Video

[Momentum57]

Originally Posted by Spectre

And you bought a what, again? An X-Type? A downsized copy of the X308, which was a copy of the Series III, except it's really a Mondeo, which in Europe IS #4 off the McBoard.

Congratulations, you paid WAY too much for a Mondeo. So, why didn't you spend a bit more (or rather less, because the X-Type is overpriced) to get something like an Eclipse or something interesting?

This from the guy that bought one of the ultimate fleet specials. I think you should be disqualified from commenting on this thread.

1. Its a Jaguar no matter how your cut it, no one says well your Rolls is just a BMW. Were talking styling not technical base layout or engine origin
2. Jaguar's depreciation is amazing you can buy a second hand one for nearly half in just two years.
3. And what fleet has Jag's seriously the not even Enron had balls that big.

I play golf and do have friends so need a trunk and a back seat so that eliminates the eclipse but then again I don't much like "sports cars". I drive from the country to the city in snowville so I prefer four wheel drive. Besides the best car company in the world (VW) produces a car to match for about 40,000 so the even brand new the jag is more reasonable.

And like you said they copied their own DNA with the styling unlike this which is muddy. Again is not a bad car and probably drive extremely well but it just is a blank. It could have been great all they had to do was make the rear tail a bit more aggressive or move away from the pack and make the front have three headlights or something.

In a few years they will be producing amazing cars look at early Lexus versus today all they had to do is get out in front.


PS guys despite not liking sports cars I did place 3rd in North American Jaguar Club Slalom for my class with the X TYPE

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by Momentum57

1. Its a Jaguar no matter how your cut it, no one says well your Rolls is just a BMW. Were talking styling not technical base layout or engine origin

The Rolls doesn't share a platform, drivetrain and body panels with any BMW. The X-Type shares all three with the Mondeo.

2. Jaguar's depreciation is amazing you can buy a second hand one for nearly half in just two years.

Yup. But anyone buying an X-Type better get an absolutely screaming deal in it, or they're an idiot... especially when you realize that the normal retail delta between an 03 X-Type and an 03 XJ is about $500.

That's a no brainer - especially given the X-Type's lousy electrics and weak, weak transaxle.

3. And what fleet has Jag's seriously the not even Enron had balls that big.

Actually, Enron *did* buy some X-Types. So did Hertz and Enterprise. A couple of banks bought them, and IIRC there was at least one of the former Big Eight accounting firms that bought them. Over in Europe, something like 70% of their sales were to fleets.

I play golf and do have friends so need a trunk and a back seat so that eliminates the eclipse but then again I don't much like "sports cars". I drive from the country to the city in snowville so I prefer four wheel drive. Besides the best car company in the world (VW) produces a car to match for about 40,000 so the even brand new the jag is more reasonable.

Um... No. The X-Type cost as much as $15,000 more than a comparable competitor at its height. Even now, it costs more, even though it's on closeout.

As for VW being the best car company in the world? ROFLMAO! Not only NO, but FUCK NO.

The X-Type isn't a bad car... but it's not a Jaguar and it's a dishonor to the marque.

PS guys despite not liking sports cars I did place 3rd in North American Jaguar Club Slalom for my class with the X TYPE

JCNA's slalom course is a joke. They're all the wine and cheese crowd; they NEVER have track days, just lame slalom events. The reason they don't have track days is because none of their members want to risk their trailer queens getting dirty. I've run in some of their events, and I was LMAO at the end of it.

JCNA is a sick joke as well. BMWCCA and MBOA are both examples of how to do it right.

[Momentum57]

Whats wrong with wine and cheese and I do participate in SCCA track days and SCCA Rally events but not really a match for the anal guys who play that. Even driving my fathers porsche my times were pale to some guy in a mustang willing to burst his tires, fry his clutch, and shit his pants to be number one. Also my girlfriend found that guys at track days don't like their cars being called cute where as the jag club members just took the compliment

[dino_martini]

I see a little Lexus LS in there. But so what if it looks like a LS, that will sell a lot more of them because people will look and say "gee for 40 grand I can have a car that looks like a Lexus, has the toys of the Lexus, RWD, V8 and it has a 10 year warranty"

That sounds pretty tempting to me.

[Symbotic]

Something else to consider. Its stiffer.

Genesis body has class-leading dynamic rigidity
2008-08-01 16:11 GMT

Genesis body-in-white has impressive torsional and bending rigidity numbers, aided by high-strength steel (56.7%), shown in green, and ultra-high-strength steel (18.3%), shown in orange/red.

­The Hyundai brand is not one that would come to mind when the subject is a highly rigid body in a sports sedan for the entry-luxury market. However, the new rear-drive Genesis, Hyundai's first model to compete in that class, was benchmarked against the competition it would be facing and against cars with which it would like to be compared.

With a design that includes an aggressive use of high- and ultra-high-strength steels, the Korean manufacturer has produced a body-in-white with impressive dynamic rigidity numbers—40.9 Hz in torsion, 52.1 Hz in bending.

These both are numbers higher than those for even such indirect competitors as the BMW 5 Series (35.9/47.7) and Mercedes-Benz E-Class (36.4/48.8) that Hyundai derived in its comparison tests, noteworthy because the new Genesis is a longer car with more interior room. Its overall length is 195.9 in (4976 mm) vs. about 190 in (4752-4754 mm) for the German models, and its U.S. EPA cabin volume is 109.4 ft³ (3.09 m³) vs. 99.1 ft³ (2.81 m³) for the 5 Series and 97.2 ft³ (2.75 m³) for the E-Class.­

The Genesis body is made up of 56.7% high-strength steel at 35-60 kg/mm² (50.8-87.0 ksi) and 18.3% ultra-high-strength steel at 60 kg/mm² and greater. Hyundai did not use the high-strength steels just to help make the body rigid but as part of an engineering effort to keep weight low. Despite its size, the Korean entry's curb weight is relatively low at about 3750 lb (1700 kg).

The B-pillars are part of a unified center structure that includes a roof rail and the floor pan's front seat mount crossmember—all made of high- or ultra-high-strength steel and integrated with the ultra-high-strength steel body side rails. In addition, there is a tubular stiffener from each side rail at the B-pillars that runs parallel to and attaches to the floor pan crossmember. The stiffeners contribute to torsional rigidity, although their primary function is to enhance side-impact performance.

The C-pillar area has V-bracing across the opening between the cabin and the luggage compartment, so like most vehicles with high rigidity numbers, this leaves only a ski-type pass-through. However, Hyundai is developing a power 60-40 split rear seat and a high-rigidity C-pillar with a full opening for the next-generation model.

Generous use of structural adhesive bead adds to body rigidity and helps reduce NVH; there is a total of 85 m (280 ft) in the joints. The adhesive is the bake-to-strengthen type, so it achieves maximum effect after the body goes through the paint oven.

Hyundai characterizes the Genesis as a sports sedan, and its stiff body does contribute to good handling. However, the high body stiffness, combined with five-link independent suspension front and rear, also provides enhanced ride comfort.
Paul Weissler

[tigger]

Originally Posted by Momentum57

1. Its a Jaguar no matter how your cut it ...

In addition to Spectre's structured and pointed response to that statement, let me simply say that, "sticking feathers in your ass does not make you a chicken".

Originally Posted by Symbotic

Hyundai's really after this market. Every little bit of news I hear about it, like this whole bit on chassis rigidity impress me a little more. I'm really curious as to how it will stack up on the road.

[petarkb]

You can tell the article is full of crap when you notice they measure rigidity in cycles per second.

EDIT: I'm not saying the car isn't stiffer than the E-class or the 5-series. I'm saying the journalist who wrote that is science-incompetent.

[Crazyjeeper]

I finally saw one on the road. It actually looks pretty good in the metal. It looks like a S-Class and a LS460 melted together.

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by tigger

In addition to Spectre's structured and pointed response to that statement, let me simply say that, "sticking feathers in your ass does not make you a chicken".

Thanks for the backup.

Thing is... they make the X-Type's body on the same line as they make the Mondeo - the one in Genk, Belgium.

That pretty much makes it a Mondeo and not a Jaguar, right there. Jaguars are wholly made in England.

[devil500]

Saw one at a dealer on my way to school. Very classy although I think that KDM picture a few pages back is what I think it should look like that would be class.

Can't wait for the Coupe though turbo 4 w/6 speed and an LSD for $20,000...

[GM_IV]

Originally Posted by Spectre

Actually, Enron *did* buy some X-Types. So did Hertz and Enterprise.

I can back you up on this one. 2 months ago we actually had a 05 X-Type on our books for the Toronto area still waiting to be sold, it was deleted a long time ago but we just couldn't get rid of it. Every other 2005 car has already been sold off, the Jaguars just took the longest possibly why we no longer carry any in this region. The only 2006 cars we still have remaining are mostly Toyota Corollas that spent much of their time in a body shop(a lot of people crash these for some reason).

[IceBone]

Originally Posted by petarkb

You can tell the article is full of crap when you notice they measure rigidity in cycles per second.

Torsional stiffness natural frequency is measured in Hertz. Here are some numbers for beemers:

E28 22.8 Hz
E34 24.8 Hz
E39 29 Hz
E60 29.8 Hz

Bending nat freq is as follows:

E28 20.6 Hz
E34 21.8 Hz
E39 26 Hz
E60 26.5 Hz

See this link on page 6 for this data. This is a ~4M pdf file on a very slow server.

[petarkb]

Originally Posted by Spectre

That pretty much makes it a Mondeo and not a Jaguar, right there. Jaguars are wholly made in England.

So is Elton John.

+ YouTube Video