Man sets car [on fire] to protest high fuel prices

[emil_t]

Originally Posted by Viper007Bond

Wow, great idea! No, don't sell the car and having money, instead throw your money away!

Oh, and 2.47 (Canadian dollars / litre) = 9.27484012 U.S. dollars / US gallon

i see here the cheapest kind of publicity possible, it actually saved him money, people from half way around the world found out about him, next stop news, his opinion was heard that's what he wanted

[TomCat]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

I don't know, though, if setting your car publically on fire, helps you much with getting a new job...

I'm reading this thread, but I can't even recall the man's name.

But you never know, maybe whatshisname's 15 minutes of fame could land him a job. Either way though, it's not something he needs to put on his resume. Getting fired would still be worse then what he chose to do instead.

[Spectre]

I have deliberately refrained from comment on this (other than posting the story) until now.

Let's ask this question: If it costs MORE than you make in a day to drive to work and feed/clothe/house yourself, why should you NOT quit? Especially in a place with an extensive welfare system like Europe!

"Who is John Galt?"

/rand

[MacGuffin]

You could also move closer to work as an alternative...

[Spectre]

Figures that it would be you posting that.

Okay, let us assume that this guy has a job "downtown" or in the city center and lives a distance away. Are you telling me that in Europe, city center accomodations are cheaper than those on the outskirts of the city?

[idk]

He doesnt want to protest against Exxon, he wants to protest against our government.
There is 64% Tax on fuel.
The price at the moment is ~1.58 € per Liter, thats is 9.43 US $ per Gallon and like i say... 64% is tax, well worth protesting imo.
And i really know many people who just work, to afford driving to work! Thats no joke. No money left for fun-things or vacation... And if u have your house, and wife and kids who are in school and clubs, and have friends and so on it's not too easy to just "move"
Even i work just for being able to pay for my fuel to go to university.

[Hidden_Hunter]

Originally Posted by vegasrebel29

Still, he shouldn't be charged for anything except lawn repairs - the rest are public services.

Would you be saying that if your house was burning down while they were responding to this idiot.

[MacGuffin]

Originally Posted by Spectre

Figures that it would be you posting that.

Okay, let us assume that this guy has a job "downtown" or in the city center and lives a distance away. Are you telling me that in Europe, city center accomodations are cheaper than those on the outskirts of the city?

It depends on the region but yes, it's possible. Besides, we're not talking about moving from the outskirts to the city center but about moving from the countryside to the town or from one town to another town.

Unlike in the USA, people do not so easily give up and sell their house, when they get a new job in another part of the country. They cling to it, even if it's ruining them.

I have colleagues in my own company who drive 90 minutes to work every day, even though they pay a lot of money for petrol, lose 3 hours of their lives each day and could live here in town much cheaper than where they live now.

As a matter of fact, I moved here myself 7 years ago just to avoid having to drive 45 minutes to work. I saved about 250 Euros per month back then with that step.

There is quite a debate here right now about how much tax repayment there should be for people who allow themselves the luxury of living in the country but working in the city and in consequence pollute the air and jam the streets.

[vegasrebel29]

Originally Posted by Hidden_Hunter

Would you be saying that if your house was burning down while they were responding to this idiot.

People misuse public services all the time. Also, if they had sense they would've prioritized the house (which local forces usually do). Also, there's more than one fire engine in my city. And in most cities.

[thedguy]

Good idea, bad execution. Should have set the members of German Parliaments cars on fire.

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

It depends on the region but yes, it's possible. Besides, we're not talking about moving from the outskirts to the city center but about moving from the countryside to the town or from one town to another town.

Unlike in the USA, people do not so easily give up and sell their house, when they get a new job in another part of the country. They cling to it, even if it's ruining them.

I have colleagues in my own company who drive 90 minutes to work every day, even though they pay a lot of money for petrol, lose 3 hours of their lives each day and could live here in town much cheaper than where they live now.

As a matter of fact, I moved here myself 7 years ago just to avoid having to drive 45 minutes to work. I saved about 250 Euros per month back then with that step.

Hm, not quite what I meant.

Let's take my case as an example, though somewhat modified. I live in a suburb of Dallas. It's about 15 miles from Downtown Dallas (our city center). Let us say that I got a contract for a 5 year hitch in a law firm downtown. So I have a 30 mile round trip commute, and since it would be a 9-5 gig, I would be stuck in traffic all the time, have a 45 minute to 1 hour commute, and would probably consume about 4 gallons per day due to traffic with any of my cars/truck.

Assuming that gas is $5/gallon (which is looks like premium is about to hit here and which is the only thing I feed the Jags), that is an expenditure of $20 per day. Plus $10 per day for parking, as most places downtown do not own their own parking. So, $30 per day in transport expenses, leaving out vehicular maintenance.

Figuring on a 4 week month with no days off, that's 20 days a month I must drive into the office. That's $600 I must spend to go to and from the office. Remember this number, I'll get back to it in a minute.

My apartment here in this suburb is a fairly large 1 bedroom. With all utilities and telecom bills included in the total, the place comes to $700 a month. I also have free parking (and can have up to six vehicles parked here, since the lot is oversized, but that's beside the point).

So, what do you think a comparable apartment close to this theoretical job downtown costs? $800? $900? Nope.

Try $1900. And it goes north from there. I'd have to pay additional for the parking space in many of them, about $100-250 a month, PER SPOT.

This sort of rate differential is the case in most American cities. And, the last time I was over in Europe, the same case there (at least in London and Paris - can't comment on Germany because I can't read German well enough and I didn't know my hosts well enough to ask). Work in the London Financial District? You're going to get raped for a flat that's close by.

So, let's see. $600 to go to work... or an additional $1500/mo to live close.

Let's say that my contract was settled in an earlier time, when fuel was cheaper and that it pays $1500 per month. I think you can do the math from there. In this situation, were gas to go up much higher, I simply would cancel the contract and quit as it would not make sense for me to go to work. Or to move.

(In reality, I'd simply ride my motorcycle instead of driving my car and laugh my ass off all the way to and from work, but that isn't an option for many people for various reasons.)

[MacGuffin]

Well, London in particular is known to be ridiculously expensive. You cannot compare that to the prices here in Germany. Don't know about Paris.

The most expensive towns here in Germany are Munich and Cologne. The rest is bearable. Especially in Berlin you are still able to live for rather resonable costs. But as I said: The issue is not so much moving from the outskirts into town but from the countryside into town or from another town. Thanks to our good public transport many folks are able to live hundreds of kilometers away from where they work - they just take the up to 300 km/h fast ICE trains in the morning and the evening, owning an annual ticket for that particular route. All that to avoid having to move.

Bust most of them go by car. Doing 200 km per day is not uncommon.

In which suburb of Dallas do you live, by the way? Having been there twice for 9 weeks alltogether, I'm a bit familiar with the area.

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

Bust most of them go by car. Doing 200 km per day is not uncommon.

In which suburb of Dallas do you live, by the way? Having been there twice for 9 weeks alltogether, I'm a bit familiar with the area.

That's not too surprising. We have one guy at my main client that commutes 200km per day. When I was in high school, at one point I had a 320km round trip... in Los Angeles.

I'm in the Richardson/Garland/Plano area. I'm sure you'll forgive me for not being more specific - I have no desire for starfox07 to come looking for the bike I bought out from under him.

In any case, this guy could have found himself in the exact scenario I posit - can't afford the fuel, can't afford to move - so why go to work?

[Cobol74]

There is one scenario, and only one where it would make sense. A time limited job where new valuable skills are being learnt. In that scenario you could take the hit but it would be difficult. I may be facing exactly the same possibility and calculation, as I may well have to give up my career as it goes to India. At 52 have to learn a new a totally new job, very few skills are transferable I suspect. This will be difficult and to get the pay I am used to, will I fear, be impossible - hey capitalism; I do not mind really I have seen the alternative (shudders).

[Ottobon]

Originally Posted by BlaRo

If you wanted to protest the government and their high taxes on gasoline, like what British people should do, that's a completely different story altogether. Just try to get more than yourself and your poor BMW to do it, however.

I'm all for that. Personally i see no point in voting socialist or even liberal because instead of getting revenue by atleast leveling the taxes for all peoples, they increase taxes on items that only hurt the poor. Correct me if i'm wrong but don't the super-rich pay less % on income tax?? I'm not all for taxing the hell out of the rich, but they should be paying at least as much, and no i don't care if they donate money to charities, thats something they should be doing on there own. Keep in mind that the "friends of the super rich" (neo-conservatives) are the type of people who think that people like this shouldn't be rewarded because their only doing something that "they should be doing in the first place." Hypocritical? Of course.

[Spectre]

In the US, no. The higher your income, the higher your percentage of tax.

There are, of course, tax dodges and such that the rich can take advantage of, more so than others.

Here's the thing - despite what liberals and the like say about the rich.... they *still* pay more tax than anyone else - and they also generate more jobs, which generates more tax, those jobs in turn generating more jobs, which generate still more tax.

Even if you leave trickle-down theory (which has been proven to work) out of the picture, the rich still pay their fair share and more on an individual basis. In 2005, the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 39.38 percent of *all* individual income taxes. That's not that their tax rate was 39.38%. It's that they paid 39.38% of all the money collected.

Going further, the top 5% paid 59.67%. The top 10% paid 70.30%. The top 25% paid 85.99%!!!!!!!

Still think the rich are "undertaxed" and should "pay more"? They seem to be funding this country as is.....


Also, do you know what happens when you start *really* jacking up the taxes on rich people? It suddenly becomes worth their while to change citizenship and go live somewhere else. And then you have 1) the 1970s all over again when the top tax rate was 60+% - at which point, why bother creating jobs or doing anything productive if the government's just going to take most of it, and 2) lots and lots and lots and lots of expatriates.

Don't think it could happen? Take a look at what the multimillionaires in U2 did when they were told they had to pay Ireland's full income tax - they moved. And now Ireland gets NO tax from them. How about that?

Rule #3 of capital management: Capital will leave where it is oppressed and go where it is not.

For the record, this is the chart of 2008 Federal tax brackets for the United States:

If your taxable income is between... your tax bracket is:
0 and 8025 10%
8025 and 32,550 15%
32,550 and 78,850 25%
78,850 and 164,550 28%
164,550 and 357,700 33%
357,700 and anything more 35%

By the way... the rich still paid more, and everyone else paid less, this year, and the year before that... and the year before that.... and the year before that... than they did in 1993. Also, with the tax cuts ramrodded through by the Bush Administration, tax *revenues* were up. Surprise! Lower taxes (down from a peak of 39.6% during the Clinton years) = stronger economy = higher incomes = more money! Amazing!

This doesn't include that absurd capital gains tax that is really double taxation - and can jack up your tax rate anywhere from 10-20%.

FYI, I am not an economist or a CPA... but my parents *are*, so I keep up with this sort of stuff. FYI, last year, my father had to pay a combined Federal, state, and local tax of 49%. He lives in California. Nice, huh? He's thinking of retiring early because they're going to jack up the taxes on him next year - and at that point, why bother earning additional income if the state is just going to take it?

Personally, I'm a supporter of the FairTax concept (http://www.fairtax.org/) - NO national income tax, just a national sales tax. Simple, easy, and effective. The more you consume, the more you pay. Those who generate money or jobs are not penalized for success, like the current system does.

[watto]

Originally Posted by Spectre

For the record, this is the chart of 2008 Federal tax brackets for the United States:

If your taxable income is between... your tax bracket is:
0 and 8025 10%
8025 and 32,550 15%
32,550 and 78,850 25%
78,850 and 164,550 28%
164,550 and 357,700 33%
357,700 and anything more 35%

Good lord, those taxes are low! Except the 0-8025, that's pretty tight.

Good idea for the protest, probably not the best way to go about it though...