Mercedes and McLaren part ways on next supercar

[jetsetter]

For years, McLaren and Mercedes seemingly went together like peanut butter and jelly, but now HWA is stepping in to tune Mercedes' next supercar. The scribes over at Automotive News Europe say the separation stems from Mercedes' dissatisfaction with the performance of the SLR McLaren vs. its primary rivals. This comes as quite a shock since only a few months back, all signs pointed to Mercedes buying McLaren. It's not exactly as though McLaren and Mercedes are splitting up altogether, though, as it's been less than a month since a drop-dead gorgeous SLR McLaren drop-top was announced.

Power for the HWA-tuned supercar will come from a tweaked version of AMG's hand-built 6.2L engine, and if the SLR performance is less than satisfactory, expect HWA's effort to be flat-out ridiculous. Speaking of AMG, the new supercar will be badged as such to make it road-legal, but it will still be a full-blown HWA race-developed product. To make room for its latest project, HWA is tripling the size of its manufacturing facilities to 3,600 sq. ft. to the tune of €4.5 million.

We find it almost comical that McLaren's 3.5 second 0-60 time and 640hp aren't enough to suit the finicky folks in Stuttgart, but with Corvettes and Vipers on the way with the same power for a quarter of the price, Mercedes had to do something to raise the already ridiculously-high bar.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/31/m...next-supercar/

Mercedes-Benz will team up with its official DTM partner, HWA AG, to co-develop and build its new super-sports car as well as several other high-end performance models. The luxury brand is reportedly disappointed by the performance of its SLR McLaren when compared against its main rivals, and this is said to be a key reason why it sought a new partner to develop its latest sports car, reports Automotive News Europe.

In steps HWA. The motorsports company was formed by Hans-Werner Aufrecht in 1967, one of the founders of AMG, and is best known for its HWA Racing team, which competes in the German touring car series with the CLK-DTM.

The new model will be a race car built for the road and is likely to be powered by a higher performance version of the hand-built 6.2L V8 engine from AMG. To make it road-legal, the car will be officially sold under the Mercedes AMG label, but it will remain a genuine HWA race-developed product. Expect to see a concept version at next year’s Geneva Motor Show.

HWA will also be investing €4.5 million to expand its manufacturing facilities, which will see its current plant extend from 1,200 to 3,600 square meters. HWA spokesman Hans Jürgen Matheis revealed to The Insider that the motorsports company always had the ambition to prove to Mercedes that it could build a better road-car than McLaren, and now it finally gets its chance.

McLaren fans shouldn’t be completely disappointed. Substantial cash flows from its successful F1 team and the freeing up of resources from this latest announcement could eventually pave the way for the development of a successor to the original McLaren F1.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/s...thout-mclaren/

[EsPpY]

Nice. A HWA Merc + McLaren F2 maybe.

Hooya. Splitting up but more babies in the pipeline sounds nice.

[Alok]

I've mentioned this on IRC almost a month ago They are using 8 brand new dodge vipers to test the transaxles they are developing. If the info I have is about the exact same car, (I doubt AMG is releasing two supercars at the same time) then it's gonna be a transaxle one.

[GraemeH]

I think it was Mercedes influence that ruined the SLR's potential rather tham McLaren. All Mercedes will want is leather, electric toys, multi-cd changers, automatic gearboxes. Compare that to McLarens F1 project and ask who has the right design philosophy? McLaren.

[marcos_eirik]

Originally Posted by GraemeH

I think it was Mercedes influence that ruined the SLR's potential rather tham McLaren. All Mercedes will want is leather, electric toys, multi-cd changers, automatic gearboxes. Compare that to McLarens F1 project and ask who has the right design philosophy? McLaren.

Some rumors even suggests that the SLR was the triggering factor that made Gordon Murray leave McLaren. Supposedly it was a real pain after having made this super rigid light weight carbon fiber monocoque to see Mercedes lad it up with a five speed slushbox, tons of luxuries and soft suspension and on top of that a supercharged engine. (Working with the BMW turbo engine at Brabham during the 80s in F1 gave him a distaste for forced induction)

There must be a reason why he doesn't want to speak about the SLR...

[American TG Man]

^And that's possibly why the engine in the Caparo T1 changed from the supercharged, 2.4 liter V8 in to the current engine (3.5 liter, normally-aspirated version of the same engine type).

I just had a thought: could this next hyper-Merc be a successor to the CLK-GTR?

[fbc]

Oh good, because the SLR was always a gutless piece of shit, so hopefully HWA can deliver something properly quick...

But seriously - imho the 'fault' with the SLR lies with Merc's influence, trying to cram as much kit as possible in there, and give it a freakin' slushbox.

[Alok]

It has a slushbox mainly because they dont have a manual tranny that can handle the mountain of torque.

[teletubby-warrior]

Originally Posted by Alok

It has a slushbox mainly because they dont have a manual tranny that can handle the mountain of torque.

I find it hard to believe that Murray couldn't come up with a solution. Mercedes...

[watto]

Well, I find it hard to believe that Merc were disappointed with the performance of the SLR, shit 210mph, 3.5secs ain't half bad.

But yes, it was too luxury focused and had a stupid auto and that stupid air brake. What's wrong with a 6 speed manual and some good brakes? I mean, Porsche did it with the GT!

[marcos_eirik]

Originally Posted by Alok

It has a slushbox mainly because they dont have a manual tranny that can handle the mountain of torque.

The Aston Martin V8 Vantage (1992 -1999) (high res image) has a similar amount of torque, and came only with a Tremec six speed manual, sourced from the Corvette ZR1. Automatic gearboxes was only available on special orders for the US. The engine was a twin supercharged 5,3-liter V8 with 550 hp and 550 lb/ft. The V600 and final edition Le Mans from 2000 had 600 hp and 600 lb/ft, and no automatic slushbox option. Keep in mind though that those numbers are probably underestimates, as Aston Martin back then usually answered questions regarding power and torque with "adequate"...



Compare this to the SLR McLaren's 575 lb/ft, getting hold of a manual gearbox that can cope with such torque is no problem. The point of this is that Mercedes doesn't believe in manual gearboxes, what high end Mercedes came a manual lately? None. Except the CLK GTR which came with an awful sequential paddleshift.

[Alok]

Originally Posted by marcos_eirik

The point of this is that Mercedes doesn't believe in manual gearboxes, what high end Mercedes came a manual lately? None. Except the CLK GTR which came with an awful sequential paddleshift.

I beg to differ, I know people very close who are currently working on a manual box for the 5L and 6L merc engines, but then again, I cannot provide any more details and i dont expect to be taken seriously until an official press release comes out.

[kekekeke]

Originally Posted by fbc

Oh good, because the SLR was always a gutless piece of shit, so hopefully HWA can deliver something properly quick...

But seriously - imho the 'fault' with the SLR lies with Merc's influence, trying to cram as much kit as possible in there, and give it a freakin' slushbox.

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Calling the SLR a gutless piece of shit is going a bit too far imo.

[hajj]

The new supercar is going to be called SLC. It will be based on the platform of the next generation SL. It should feature the well known 6.2 with upto 700bhp and maybe even a turbo V8. It's all going to be done by HWA.

Source in German. (AMS)

[marcos_eirik]

Originally Posted by kekekeke

Calling the SLR a gutless piece of shit is going a bit too far imo.

The SLR is according to both CAR and EVO a rare show of automotive schizophrenia. They wanted the SLR to be both a comfortable long distance cruiser and uncompromising sportscar at the same time, but it ended up being very much neither nor, rather than both...

I'm sure when fbc said "gutless piece of shit" he meant that a supercar should be more than 'all torque, no action...'

[watto]

Originally Posted by kekekeke

Calling the SLR a gutless piece of shit is going a bit too far imo.

I'm guessing that fbc was being totally totally sarcastic.

[kekekeke]

they should use the twin turbo 6.0 v12 from the brabus roadster. except let this HWA guys tune it up a bit more.

[Paul]

There is nothing wrong with the SLR, maybe Mercedes just wanted their supercar that they sell to be a more special than the other supercars in the market.

[fbc]

Originally Posted by kekekeke

Calling the SLR a gutless piece of shit is going a bit too far imo.

Thanks for such an effort responding to my post, but:

Originally Posted by watto

I'm guessing that fbc was being totally totally sarcastic.

Phew - I thought it was pretty obvious (especially with 'But seriously' on the next line)... seems not.

[watto]

Originally Posted by fbc

Phew - I thought it was pretty obvious (especially with 'But seriously' on the next line)... seems not.

Don't forget the '...' at the end of the sentence as well. I had to have a chuckle at the serious replies