Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating on the 'Ring

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Porsche has accused Nissan of cheating in the GT-R's record bid at the Nurburgring racetrack.

Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April.

It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.

"This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," says August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche, speaking to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabrio.

"For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."

He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki would only be possible with a semi-slick race-style tyre.

Achleitner says Porsche took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.

He says there was no tweaking of any kind and the GT2 and Turbo both ran on regular Porsche road tyres, the Michelin Sport Cup.

"We bought the car in the US. We drove a GT-R with new tyres," he says.

Achleitner was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.

But he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.

The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.

Achleitner says the back-to-back comparison was run because Porsche was concerned by Nissan's claims for the GT-R, which is heavier than the 911 with similar power.

"The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," he says.

"It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."

In the end, Porsche believes its testing has achieved the right lap times for the Skyline GT-R and benchmarked it against its own 911 heroes in the right context.

"For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says.

- Herald Sun

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/mo...referrer=email

[cdbob]

Interesting that nothing was said about the ZR-1. I wonder what the reaction of Nissan will be.

[Lupin_IV]

They probably didn't test against a ZR-1 or ACR, as they aren't exactly market competitors with super sedans.

[stevanford1]

It wouldn't suprise me if it was true.

[Viper007Bond]

Originally Posted by stevanford1

It wouldn't suprise me if it was true.

Me either.

[Hidden_Hunter]

You'd want to be pretty damn sure before accusing them of anything

[the Interceptor]

An interesting theory, but I don't believe in it. For starters, there have been tests independent of Nissan as well as Porsche, done by SportAuto's (German car mag) Horst von Saurma, who knows the 'ring pretty well. If you were to expect a bias from him, it obviously would be towards German cars.

At the end of 2007 on a cold and partially wet Nordschleife, he did a 7:50 on the Ring in a GT-R, which is 4 seconds quicker than what Porsche claims for a dry track. On said dry track in the summer of 2007, he lapped the current 911 Turbo in 7:54, which is 16 seconds slower than what Porsche claims. Notice something here?

I think Porsche talks bollocks. Also, I don't get their argument. If you were to judge those two cars solely on their figures, the 911 would be quicker. But the GT-Rs sophisticated electronic systems allow it to grip to the road extremely well and therefore, as to be seen in many independent tests, the Nissan is quicker than the figures suggest. Yet, Porsche seems to totally ignore that.

[jensked]

There's only one solution: let the Stig do a lap.

[BlaRo]

Originally Posted by jensked

There's only one solution: let the Stig do a lap.

There's only one BETTER solution: let the Internet fanboys fight it out! Eventually, somebody's bound to be right!

[hansvonaxion]

Originally Posted by the Interceptor

An interesting theory, but I don't believe in it. For starters, there have been tests independent of Nissan as well as Porsche, done by SportAuto's (German car mag) Horst von Saurma, who knows the 'ring pretty well. If you were to expect a bias from him, it obviously would be towards German cars.

At the end of 2007 on a cold and partially wet Nordschleife, he did a 7:50 on the Ring in a GT-R, which is 4 seconds quicker than what Porsche claims for a dry track. On said dry track in the summer of 2007, he lapped the current 911 Turbo in 7:54, which is 16 seconds slower than what Porsche claims. Notice something here?

I think Porsche talks bollocks. Also, I don't get their argument. If you were to judge those two cars solely on their figures, the 911 would be quicker. But the GT-Rs sophisticated electronic systems allow it to grip to the road extremely well and trherefore, as to be seen in many independent tests, the Nissan is quicker than the figures suggest. Yet, Porsche seems to totally ignore that.

True.

There are a few things to take into consideration;
the gearbox (over such a long lap it makes a difference)
the GT-R is actually about 500hp
the driver

Watching independent tests like Autocar etc run them side by side, the GT-R usually comes out on top (on short tracks) or they're pretty evenly matched. If it was as slow as Porsche claimed the other tests would have shown similar results. Even on the TG test track it lapped faster than the Carrera GT and GT3RS.

[NooDle]

I dunno they wouldn't be making these claims if they were just grasping at straws...

people seem to forget how much of a difference tyres make in corner speed, so a light mod to the tyres can win you an awesome amount of seconds on the ring

[flyingfridge]

so what about all the other track tests where the GT-R mauls Porsches? sounds like spite to me

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by the Interceptor

An interesting theory, but I don't believe in it. For starters, there have been tests independent of Nissan as well as Porsche, done by SportAuto's (German car mag) Horst von Saurma, who knows the 'ring pretty well. If you were to expect a bias from him, it obviously would be towards German cars.

At the end of 2007 on a cold and partially wet Nordschleife, he did a 7:50 on the Ring in a GT-R, which is 4 seconds quicker than what Porsche claims for a dry track. On said dry track in the summer of 2007, he lapped the current 911 Turbo in 7:54, which is 16 seconds slower than what Porsche claims. Notice something here?

I think Porsche talks bollocks. Also, I don't get their argument. If you were to judge those two cars solely on their figures, the 911 would be quicker. But the GT-Rs sophisticated electronic systems allow it to grip to the road extremely well and trherefore, as to be seen in many independent tests, the Nissan is quicker than the figures suggest. Yet, Porsche seems to totally ignore that.

they haven´t done a supertest yet though have they? Anyway, press cars have been known to be quite a lot faster than their showroom counterparts, the current RS4 is a good example, as are the early versions of the last generation JCW Cooper S. And don´t believe everything Horst says, he does know the ring well, but he has proved in several 24h races that he can´t remotely match the speed of the pros. The whole Supertest thingy is really not as scientific as they make it out to be...

I don´t really see how the 911 is in direct competition with the GTR, but the guys in Weissach probably just got sick of all the internet fanboiism. Porsche normally don´t just go ahead and make claims like that because they feel like it. If somebody else has built a better car, then there´s no point in whining about it, you have to either live with it or build a better one. The first step in this process is to analyse what the other guys have built... perhaps the model they got was a neutered version of some kind (after all they got it from the states), but I doubt they would have missed that....

[Karoug]

Tests are done with press cars. Porsche bought a customer car..

That said, I think it's BS as well.. But we know that Nissan are not above "enhancing" their press cars.. Like many manufacturers do.

[Nocturnal]

ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.

Same weather conditions two hours apart? Ive never known that to happen once there!!

[luvcars]

I am a bit skeptical about all these ring times now...

[un-dee]

Seems to make a lot of sense to me. It was so much faster than anything else, you can't put that all to the electronics. I don't care if a Porsche is faster or slower or anything, but it annoys me when everyone starts spewing out bullshit just to be "the fastest"

[WellsieTRD]

I think porsche are just ticked off that they've been beaten. I agree that it sounds like spite. I would love to see a head to head between these two just to settle the arguement

[wooflepoof]

no way a completely standard GT-R did that time. Couldnt' care less about the Porsche

[lv2xlr8]

Come on, why should I believe a competitor saying things about another competitor?