Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating on the 'Ring

[wooflepoof]

doesn't matter anyways, it'll only do that once before the gearbox explodes and the warranty is voided

[ahpadt]

Originally Posted by Disciple

I have seen that clip and it has me baffled, because...

http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-08...issan-GT-R.htm

http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-08...issan-GT-R.htm

So either that PDK gearbox is a phenomenon, or something else is going on. I mean the GTR even does ok against the LP640.

As you see, the PDK does indeed shave a lot of time from drag times. Prolly won't be long before we see a Turbo with PDK.

[bartboy9891]

Originally Posted by wooflepoof

doesn't matter anyways, it'll only do that once before the gearbox explodes and the warranty is voided

So it's like an Alfa Romeo, then. A car that's as good as a car can be...briefly.

[Disciple]

Originally Posted by ahpadt

As you see, the PDK does indeed shave a lot of time from drag times. Prolly won't be long before we see a Turbo with PDK.

That'll be very interesting then. Providing the PDK can handle the massive torque of the turbo, it'll be a different animal.

[Twerp128]

It has even offered to show the actual tyres from the record run, which were taken back by Sumitomo in Japan for promotional work, to prove they are identical to the rubber fitted to production cars.

Look we have tires, therefore we are legit

It states that the record run, by former F1 driver Pinnocchio Suzuki, was even compromised by carrying around 50 kilograms of data logging equipment supplied by Marelli and camera equipment.

So actually it was 120 lbs. heavier then Porsche realized, Oh, I got no strings, to hold me down. . .

Nissan has gone into great detail on its work with the GT-R at the Nurburgring, including documenting its various track tests earlier this year and the method - the same one used by Sport Auto Magazine in Germany - it used to time the car.

Where are ze documents?

And Mizuno even says the Nurburgring lap record was not the prime objective of the GT-R program.

“We have used circuits like the Nurburgring and Sendai extensively during the development of the GT-R. The fastest lap-time was never the objective but a simple parameter for us to measure the GT-R in a consistent way against other world class supercars," he says.

Bullshit. Then why would you spend the time filming all that shit in the intro of the 7:38 video. If it wasn't a publicity stunt then why is every magazine hyping the bejeezus out of the 7:29 time. Doesn't make good advertisement if the the GTR doesn't break every record.

The GTR is undoubtedly a great car, although I'm suspicious about the conditions the 7:29 time was achieved in, I have no doubt the car achieved that time, it's the method that is what is under question. The lies about the R33 don't help their case.

For those who claim Porsche is whining, maybe so, but don't think for one second the Engineers in Stuttgart are sitting around pissing at Nissan. They're all working their asses off integrating PDK, working out direct injection, as well as stuff no one knows about, to make the next breed of 911 faster, leaner, better.

Perhaps though the stars just aligned that day for Nissan though. Really it doesn't matter because any one who's into tracking their cars wont have a GTR or a Turbo, perhaps a GT2 or a V-Spec, but more likely they'll have the new Exige 260 or a Viper ACR.

[Ottobon]

3 reasons i could imagine the GTR may have done a quicker time (7:29 or not) Better Aerodynamics with higher hp (lots of help on the high speed stretches) Faster transmission, atleast as good of suspension geometry.

I'd love to hear that Nissan Cheated, that would make a great story, but i don't believe it just yet.

I'd rather have a AMV8.

[NooDle]

Someone at the TG site is reading our little discussion

They also have the BEST. SOLUTION. EVAR.

[MacGuffin]

There is a rule among scientists, that a scientific experiment must be reproducible to be valid, with the same results each time. Otherwise anyone could state anything anytime and people would be forced to believe it.

After all, so far we only have Nissan's word on it and that's not exactly a neutral one. Or has anyone heard about another one who achieved the same lap time in a GT-R?

So... what's keeping Nissan from doing it again under neutral supervision, except their pride maybe?

Should be a piece of cake and should wipe the doubts away forever.

If it is reproducible...

[BerserkerCatSplat]

As a scientific experiment, Ring laps are about as accurate and reproducible as throwing spaghetti at a wall to see if it's cooked.

[MacGuffin]

That was just an analogy to explain my point.

If I state that I can run the 100 meters in under 9 seconds, it is not enough as a proof doing it alone, with only my stopwatch running...

[Spazatao]

^I agree with the analogy. If Nissan says it's capable of 7m.29s, then do it again. I don't expect the exact same time to be achieved but the point would be lapping in something *around* 7m.29s. A 7m.30-ish would be enough. BUT, all I really wanted to see is the Stig doing it, as Top Gear said. Sabine wouldn't be bad at all , also...

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

That was just an analogy to explain my point.

If I state that I can run the 100 meters in under 9 seconds, it is not enough as a proof doing it alone, with only my stopwatch running...

Sorry, my comment wasn't directed at your post specifically, more at the idea of using Ring laps as a benchmarking tool in general.

[Spectre]

Here's the actual video, so you can look at it and decide for yourself.

+ YouTube Video

In case that doesn't work, here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBZ5i15yVU8

A couple of thoughts from that:

1. The GT-R wasn't on slicks. If it was, it wouldn't have slid around like that.
2. *Definitely* a different driving style needed from what I've seen of Porsche 'Ring videos.
3. The GT-R is *ungodly* fast.

[Disciple]

Racing slicks don't screech and carry on like that either. You can see how much time that gearbox gives the GTR and it's ability to know when to change gears is scary.

[Twerp128]

Seems to me someone else should be able to replicate the time. Especially if they are using a car 120 lbs lighter than the one used to achieve the 7:29 time. Or at least get close, the closest I've seen is 7:50. Plus as far as I can tell the Nissan is as fast as a ZR1 on the straight, and I know the CoDs are different but the ZR1 has 140 more hp?

I'd like to see some other ring videos of the GTR, Nissan is saying here look at our tires, well I'm thinking ECU map or cranked up turbos.

Who knows?

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by Spazatao

^I agree with the analogy. If Nissan says it's capable of 7m.29s, then do it again. I don't expect the exact same time to be achieved but the point would be lapping in something *around* 7m.29s. A 7m.30-ish would be enough. BUT, all I really wanted to see is the Stig doing it, as Top Gear said. Sabine wouldn't be bad at all , also...

Something that should be pointed out is that they rented the entire track for the event, and there may not be another free day to rent the track (so that it is clear of idiots causing delays) for some time; nor would it be right for Nissan to have to give up a development day (remember, they have other vehicles they're testing there) just to shut up Porsche's whining. Of course, if Porsche were to put up or shut up by offering one of *their* test days and do a head to head run against the GT-R....

Originally Posted by Twerp128

Seems to me someone else should be able to replicate the time. Especially if they are using a car 120 lbs lighter than the one used to achieve the 7:29 time. Or at least get close, the closest I've seen is 7:50. Plus as far as I can tell the Nissan is as fast as a ZR1 on the straight, and I know the CoDs are different but the ZR1 has 140 more hp?

The ZR1 has an ungodly amount of power, but from the videos I've seen, it can't actually USE all of it with street tires in any of the first four gears. It just blows the tires away instead. AWD does have the advantage at higher horsepower ratings in that respect.

[argatoga]

Porsche doesn't need to be faster, they just need to say it. Now there is enough confusion so that current 911 owners can still feel they have a faster car (Porsche said so), and happily buy more cars from them.

[Spectre]

Until and unless Nissan proves it again... at which point Porsche will look like fools - and who wants to buy a car from fools?

This may not turn out well for Porsche.

[argatoga]

Originally Posted by Spectre

Until and unless Nissan proves it again... at which point Porsche will look like fools - and who wants to buy a car from fools?

Yuppies? Also I am sure Porsche is working on a super duper light version of their car as we speak (with just enough lightness/grunt to win the 'Ring).

[Twerp128]

Originally Posted by Spectre

The ZR1 has an ungodly amount of power, but from the videos I've seen, it can't actually USE all of it with street tires in any of the first four gears. It just blows the tires away instead. AWD does have the advantage at higher horsepower ratings in that respect.

I don't know about that, I just watched a Z06 today, on stock tires, run an incredibly fast autocross. It's no ZR1, but from what I understand the C6 chassis does an excellent job of putting down the power with a proficient driver, and all the torque is available from down low.

Plus from what I see the GT-R runs the big straight as fast as a ZR1? The last turn isn't really slow, I don't see how that happens with 140 hp and 400 lbs less weight?