Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating on the 'Ring

[JakeRadden]

Maybe they're both speaking crap.
But I really don't think the GT-R can do a 7:29.
Maybe it can, *shrug*. The only way for ME to know is to WATCH a world-class driver drive it around the ring, and see how he does.
But I can't do that.
So I'll just say it's a great piece of engineering, I don't really want one, give me a Turbo instead, thanks. Regardless of what their 'Ring times are.

[ahpadt]

Buying a GT-R just to compare it to the GT2 and Turbo... Dedication.

[Thanatos]

werent the rumors about the semi slick tyres around when the time and the video came out, but it was simply forgotten or unheard becuse of the mountains of skyline (GT-R) fanbois spam?

also the title is misleading, something that would come of the tabloids. if you look at the quotes noone from the porsche is accusing nissan of anything.

imo they were really just testing the GT-R for themselfs becuse they didnt understand the times and as we can see now they do.

[the Interceptor]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

they haven´t done a supertest yet though have they? Anyway, press cars have been known to be quite a lot faster than their showroom counterparts, the current RS4 is a good example, as are the early versions of the last generation JCW Cooper S. And don´t believe everything Horst says, he does know the ring well, but he has proved in several 24h races that he can´t remotely match the speed of the pros. The whole Supertest thingy is really not as scientific as they make it out to be...

No, they haven't done a supertest. But if the same person - good driver or not - drives two cars around the ring and archieves about the same time (for the GT-R under bad and the 911 Turbo under good weather conditions), I have to question a comparison which shows a totally different picture swinging to the exact other side. Also, if the GT-R would have been a tuned press car with questionable rubber (=semi slicks), how would it lap a wet Ring quicker than a 911, given that Porsche says it is 25 seconds slower in dry conditions?

Originally Posted by Thanatos

werent the rumors about the semi slick tyres around when the time and the video came out, but it was simply forgotten or unheard becuse of the mountains of skyline (GT-R) fanbois spam?

It was neither forgotten nor unheard, it simply was a mistake created by haters, disbelievers, bad video footage and bad translations.

[Vector]

What we need is a truly unbiased and indifferent source to drive the Japanese Nissan and the German Porsche, and to declare them both rubbish.

We need Clarkson!

[Steve Levin]

Given the variety of "external" tests I have to question Porsche about this.

Steve

[Spectre]

I'm smelling sour grapes here. Especially since customer GT-Rs have proven to be just as fast in other tests and on other tracks as the press cars were. I'm thinking Porsche is whining.

[D-Fence]

As long as there is no independent test with CUSTOMER cars, everything is irrelevant. My Ibiza did a 7:15 btw, but I am not bragging about it and won't let you test it.




7h 15 minutes that is

[prizrak]

Funny thing is that people buying these cars will not be swayed by the 'ring times I mean really do you see a dedicated Porsche enthusiast picking up a GT-R over a 911 Turbo because its slightly slower around a big ass race track that unless you live in the area you are not going to go to?

[edkwon]

Is anyone else with me on this opinion: that this bit of interesting news changes NOTHING about the way i view the top end 911s and the GTR = I'd rather have a 911 turbo anyday despite being a lot more expensive, but i think the GTR is an amazing car for the money and its monstrously fast.

Seriously, who f**king cares that much about the nurburgring lap times anyway. I don't factor that in the cars i like or want to buy.

[Spectre]

I'd rather have the Nissan. It's almost certainly going to be more reliable, it's going to cost a heck of a lot less to maintain, and the engine is in the right place.

Unless you *like* having to spend $1400 for a coolant flush....

[the Interceptor]

The fact that no potential buyer of either car would change his/her decision on which car to buy interestingly implies that Porsche has no other reason than saying what's posted above because that's what they found out.

Is that sentence too long?

Anyway, I still don't believe it, yet, I don't see how someone like Porsche would come forward with something like that purely out of spite. An interesting case...

[Donington]

HAX!

I fear they may only be able to solve this with a dance-off...

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by the Interceptor

The fact that no potential buyer of either car would change his/her decision on which car to buy interestingly implies that Porsche has no other reason than saying what's posted above because that's what they found out.

Is that sentence too long?

Anyway, I still don't believe it, yet, I don't see how someone like Porsche would come forward with something like that purely out of spite. An interesting case...

It is possible or probable that Porsche is feeling really nervous about this. A large percentage of their US sales goes to, let's face it, geeks who make out like bandits in software/hardware/other tech services. They're the ones who were enthralled by the GT-R mystique via Grand Turismo, but couldn't get one in the US... until now. So Porsche knows they have competition for their prized demographic.

Remember also that the US auto market is *definitely* value driven. Porsche is high in the marque hierarchy here, but they're not in the top tier. The Corvette, despite being a better value proposition, hasn't made much of a dent in Porsche sales because it's generally got a different clientele who are willing to put up with the shortcomings (UAW-built, horrible interior, rattles, only seats two) to get a fast car for cheap. The GT-R has none of those shortcomings and is less than half the price of a loaded 911 Turbo.

[the Interceptor]

About 80% nof Porsches bought here are bought because a Porsche is a Porsche. I assume that this is the same in the US, therefore I think that only a very small percentage would accept a just-as-fast-Nissan as a replacement, may it be much cheaper.

[Spectre]

It's not quite the same. The US market is extremely value driven, right up to the highest echelons (which is why the Maybach tanked here).

Those who buy a Porsche "because it is a Porsche" either buy Cocksters or Gaymans (did I say that? ) or the 911 Carreras if they want a car or a Gayenne if they want an SUV. They don't buy the Turbos, the S models, or the GT* models. They don't sell many of those, but they get Porsche a LOT of money (as their profit margins on them are ludicrous).

[Wizegui]

Looks like SOMEONE is getting nervous... Why can't they just spend the time to improve the cars, rather than accuse their opponents for foul play?

[ahpadt]

Originally Posted by Spectre

It's not quite the same. The US market is extremely value driven, right up to the highest echelons (which is why the Maybach tanked here).

Those who buy a Porsche "because it is a Porsche" either buy Cocksters or Gaymans (did I say that? ) or the 911 Carreras if they want a car or a Gayenne if they want an SUV. They don't buy the Turbos, the S models, or the GT* models. They don't sell many of those, but they get Porsche a LOT of money (as their profit margins on them are ludicrous).

So because they have a high price, they immediately become shit? GREAT LOGIC GOING ON.

[JakeRadden]

Originally Posted by ahpadt

So because they have a high price, they immediately become shit? GREAT LOGIC GOING ON.

No, it just means they're not very good value for money.

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by ahpadt

So because they have a high price, they immediately become shit? GREAT LOGIC GOING ON.

My alterations of Porsche names is nothing that TopGear and other motor media haven't done.

Remember, Jeremy himself came up with the Cockster line, on the show - though he used it to designate the Cayenne and not the hairdresser-special Boxster. If I remember correctly, he also once called the Cayman a Gayman, also on the show.


Edit: Ah, yes, here's the quote from 7x02:

Jeremy: It's called the Cayman and I know what you're thinking, you're thinking, "that's not a new car, it's just a Boxster with a roof." You have got a point, it's got the same controls as the Boxster. They should've called it the Cockster!

Originally Posted by JakeRadden

No, it just means they're not very good value for money.

Bingo. They're not great value for money - heck, TopGear complains about the mass extortion that is the Porsche options list on a regular basis.

For example, the Boxster's main competition is the Merc SLK - and they sell a lot more SLKs here, because it is a better value, at least on this side of the pond.