Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating on the 'Ring

[Spazatao]

I'm not sure what to think on this one. I do think 7.29 min is too fast for a car with GTR's specs right-out-of-the factory and that Nissan MAY have 'cheated' on this one. But I don't accept Porsche's claims either. Maybe their driver was too shocked to drive a car with the engine in the front that didn't know what to do with it...

[ahpadt]

Originally Posted by Spazatao

I'm not sure what to think on this one. I do think 7.29 min is too fast for a car with GTR's specs right-out-of-the factory and that Nissan MAY have 'cheated' on this one. But I don't accept Porsche's claims either. Maybe their driver was too shocked to drive a car with the engine in the front that didn't know what to do with it...

Walter Röhl is used to driving Audi rally cars, so I doubt it...

[Spectre]

I wouldn't put it past "Mr. VAG" Röhl to sandbag if his bosses at VAG/Porsche told him to...

What's not making sense here is that customers who've run their cars on tracks against Porsche 911 Turbos have reported that the GT-Rs are consistently faster than the 911s. This claim doesn't hold water, IMHO.

[Twerp128]

I really don't see Porsche crying on this one. This isn't the first time a car has bested the 911, always before they have just put their nose to the grindstone and made a better car. No, I think Porsche has known the 7:29 time was fishy from the get go. They don't make bold claims like this, I bet the boys in the white coats have been pissed. And have been trying to get there head around this one.

Look at the ZR1, it has 140 more hp and weighs over 200 lb. less and it only beat the GT-R by 3 seconds?

[Spectre]

If you look at vid of the ZR1 on a tight course, you can see that it has problems getting the power to the ground without spinning the tires. There's a lot more power there than the rear tires alone can handle - but the GT-R is AWD and has a lot more drive traction.

There was a recent media event here in the DFW area where GM ran media members around the Texas Motor Speedway road course in various vehicles. The ZR1 was lighting its tires around every corner.

[Seasonone]

Bwahahahahahahhahahaha oh my god this is the funniest thing I have ever read. Man Porsche is sure pissed off a car that costs less than a base model 911 even rapes their supercar and instead of creating a car that can match it they make horribly false accusations in a desperate attempt to discredit the GTR.

Even though the GTR rapes the 911 in every test done it somehow loses that much time and best motoring is in on the conspiracy. let me guess? They think big foot was driving while the shooter on the grassy knolls was opening traffic for them?


I guess if you're one of those people who want to hate the GTR this is "proof" everybody else... well...

[jayhawk]

Originally Posted by Spectre

I'd rather have the Nissan. It's almost certainly going to be more reliable, it's going to cost a heck of a lot less to maintain, and the engine is in the right place.

Unless you *like* having to spend $1400 for a coolant flush....

Call up your local Nissan dealer and ask them how much a 15,000 mile service will be for *your* GT-R. Seriously, call them up. The cost to maintain a GT-R is about the same as a Porsche turbo.



The GT-R is the ultimate bench racing car, read threads in this forum to prove that point! Give it a little more technology, and it would happily propel itself without the need of a human interface.

My dealership has two, and I have stared at them, sat in them, rode in them...if you strip away the technology, it has the interior quality of a Maxima, rather weird proportions and sounds like a 350Z. It really isn't all that special on face value.

I must admit I was thrilled when I first saw one, but after scrutinizing them for a month, I think the reason why Nissan built this car was to generate showroom traffic and to prove they could build it. Nissan did change forever how a supercar is built, designed and engineered, but along the way they seemed to forget what endears people to Porsche, Ferrari and the Corvette. It's the history, the prestige, the soul.

It is a Japanese car; no soul or character, but plenty of technology, like a Lancer EVO. If that thrills some, great! I would rather get a Porsche or a ZO6 for that money, knowing that though my supercar might be slower than a Nissan computer, it has a HELL of a lot of character going for it.

[Wizegui]

Originally Posted by jayhawk

It is a Japanese car; no soul or character, but plenty of technology, like a Lancer EVO. If that thrills some, great! I would rather get a Porsche or a ZO6 for that money, knowing that though my supercar might be slower than a Nissan computer, it has a HELL of a lot of character going for it.

This can only end well.

[SuperStalin]

Oh man, if only TopGear stepped in, and the Stig took the three cars for a spin on the 'ring... that would be,
...wait for it... EPIC!

[jayhawk]

Originally Posted by Wizegui

This can only end well.

It can end well, if some here won't get their panties in a twist, and come to the conclusion that I am not attacking them personally.

I mean, I own a Subaru. I think it is a wonderful car, but in the end, it ain't no Alfa Romeo.

[Necx0]

Hahaha First off people Walter Rohrl didn't do the lap times.

As for the times?? Who knows and who cares? The GT-R's lap time is possible, the thing runs high 11 quarters out of the box.

As for GTR vs Porsche. At the Targa West tarmac rally a couple of weeks ago 1st place R35 GT-R 2nd place Porsche GT2. I would say the GT-R has a slight upper hand, and thats coming from number 1 Porsche fanboy. In Australia the current pricing of private imports puts it a bit above M3/RS4/C63 territory.

[starfox07]

I'm done believing any 'Ring lap times. 100% of road racing is down to the driver anways so there is no point of comparing lap times. Driver skill is essential.

[JakeRadden]

Originally Posted by Seasonone

Bwahahahahahahhahahaha oh my god this is the funniest thing I have ever read. Man Porsche is sure pissed off a car that costs less than a base model 911 even rapes their supercar and instead of creating a car that can match it they make horribly false accusations in a desperate attempt to discredit the GTR.

Even though the GTR rapes the 911 in every test done it somehow loses that much time and best motoring is in on the conspiracy. let me guess? They think big foot was driving while the shooter on the grassy knolls was opening traffic for them?


I guess if you're one of those people who want to hate the GTR this is "proof" everybody else... well...

I smell a GT-R fanboy...

Originally Posted by starfox07

I'm done believing any 'Ring lap times. 100% of road racing is down to the driver anways so there is no point of comparing lap times. Driver skill is essential.

I did a 7:12 in a Geo Metro Turbo, believe it or not.

[SuperStalin]

The 'ring is too bloody long. If the driver loses focus just for a fraction of a second
he'll most likely lose the flow of the corners, and in the end he'll achieve a much worse time.

It's a fun track, but I can't seriously consider it as some sort of benchmark for anything.

[Electric-Mayhem]

Originally Posted by jayhawk

Call up your local Nissan dealer and ask them how much a 15,000 mile service will be for *your* GT-R. Seriously, call them up. The cost to maintain a GT-R is about the same as a Porsche turbo.



The GT-R is the ultimate bench racing car, read threads in this forum to prove that point! Give it a little more technology, and it would happily propel itself without the need of a human interface.

My dealership has two, and I have stared at them, sat in them, rode in them...if you strip away the technology, it has the interior quality of a Maxima, rather weird proportions and sounds like a 350Z. It really isn't all that special on face value.

I must admit I was thrilled when I first saw one, but after scrutinizing them for a month, I think the reason why Nissan built this car was to generate showroom traffic and to prove they could build it. Nissan did change forever how a supercar is built, designed and engineered, but along the way they seemed to forget what endears people to Porsche, Ferrari and the Corvette. It's the history, the prestige, the soul.

It is a Japanese car; no soul or character, but plenty of technology, like a Lancer EVO. If that thrills some, great! I would rather get a Porsche or a ZO6 for that money, knowing that though my supercar might be slower than a Nissan computer, it has a HELL of a lot of character going for it.

I'm getting kind of ticked off at all this "the GTR is only good because of computers" talk. Its far from the only car out there to be heavily controlled by computers. Porsche themselves use them extremely heavily to make sure that the car handles like they want it to. All the traction aids and yaw sensors that are on the GTR are also on the 911, so you really can't say that computers are the major difference between the two. The only difference I see is that one has a more obvious computer interface (the GTR for sure) then the other.

Its certainly true that without the driver aids in a 911, there would be alot more of them wrapped around trees and in ditches. Before the advent of this kind of stuff, the 911 had the reputation for being one of the hardest cars to drive on the limit, with only the best in the world capable of controlling it reliably. I'm sure that modern advances in chassis design have helped alot, but its the computers that have made it driveable for the every day person.

So its really unfair to judge this car in the way many are doing. If you judge the GTR to only be up to its computer, then you have to say the same about all the other sports car manufacturers too. They all use computers and they all design good chassis, Nissan included. I would get used to the fact that Japan is going to be right up there with the European crowd in this, and not discount them.

Lastly, I haven't sat in a GTR or even seen one in person, but after riding rather frequently in a 911 turbo, I can't say that I would imagine the GTR would have any less "soul" then the 911. I love the 911 and would love to own one, and would probably choose it over a GTR, but I don't think that it has any more "soul" then my Subaru WRX. The Porsche is certainly is more highly engineered and very very well built compared to my Subaru, but it has a very utilitarian interior.

The only major difference to me is that Porsche leaves more of the decision making to the driver, rather then just having it be there. The example I use is that the Porsche doesn't have a symbol or chime to tell you if your seat belt is on or not. They figure that you are perfectly capable of making the decision to wear one or not, and that you don't need the car to tell you that you forgot. The GTR seems the opposite to me, and is all about letting you know every little detail of whats going on. The tech geek in me loves this, but the driver in me would get annoyed at it sometimes I'm sure.

Anyways, there is nothing for me that points towards the GTR being anything but a spectacular car that can hang with just about any car out there. Its nice to see some of the "old standbys" of the supercar world getting their panties in twist over this car. Only good can come of it really, as it has the promise of some truly epic cars coming out in the future to compete and beat it, and since its a much better price point, I imagine they may be more affordable for the average person too.

JH

[Gman333-X-ferrari]

Originally Posted by jayhawk

It is a Japanese car; no soul or character, but plenty of technology, like a Lancer EVO. If that thrills some, great! I would rather get a Porsche or a ZO6 for that money, knowing that though my supercar might be slower than a Nissan computer, it has a HELL of a lot of character going for it.

Oh yeah? Then why does Clarkson say: "When you get to these speeds, you expect it to feel detached like a playstation, but incredibly it feels mechanical, it feels analogue, it feels human, it feels fan-beeding-tastic..." (Episode 11x05)

Frankly, I think that you are just talking BS, with a baseless generalisation of "it's a Nissan computer, it has no soul". Surely, something that is so superb to drive must have character? And by superb I mean, a car which feels like a driver's car, which the GT-R is.''

edit: Not trying to start an argument here, this is just my opinion.

[satcomvato]

Maybe the 911 turbo, GTR and ZR1 should go head to head with Sabinne Schmidt at the wheel? Sounds like a good TG segment idea!

[stevanford1]

Am i the only one who thinks "soul" is a word used to make a shit car sound good to someone ?

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by stevanford1

Am i the only one who thinks "soul" is a word used to make a shit car sound good to someone ?

Nope, you're not alone. It used to mean something, now it means "We're trying to sell you rubbish with no other redeeming quality".

[vegasrebel29]

Originally Posted by Spectre

Nope, you're not alone. It used to mean something, now it means "We're trying to sell you rubbish with no other redeeming quality".

No other implies that soul is actually present... much like the tofurkey to turkey and the kit car to the Ferrari, advertising hype is a viable substitute to actual soul. Not that I believe soul is really a thing in cars, but still.