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Thread: Possible good thing from bailouts: diagnostic codes and tools might be made public.

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    Possible good thing from bailouts: diagnostic codes and tools might be made public.

    http://wardsauto.com/home/shops_want_codes_091012/

    MIDLAND, MI – Now that U.S. taxpayers hold a stake in General Motors Co. and Chrysler LLC, chances seem greater Congress will pass the latest version of a Right to Repair Act.

    So says John Washbish, vice president of the Aftermarket Auto Parts Alliance Inc., a trade group pushing for legislation to require auto makers to share virtually all technical service information with independent repair shops, not just their dealers.

    “We’ve tried for eight years to get this passed,” Washbish says here at an automotive forum at Northwood University. “Lobbyists from both sides are having the most fun.”

    At issue is whether auto makers by law should provide independent shops with all the codes dealership technicians use to diagnose problems, especially those involving the array of computerized systems on modern vehicles.

    The bill also would require auto makers to offer the same specialized tools, training information and equipment dealerships get. The tools must be sold at “nondiscriminatory” prices, according to the bill now in committee.
    Currently, repair shops have access to some but not all codes. In some repair cases involving sophisticated systems – particularly in high-end vehicles – independent shops are unable to do the work and must refer customers to dealerships.

    “Independent shops need the codes so we can repair vehicles,” Washbish says. “It is necessary for that information to be available.”
    Opponents of the bill say most information already is available on websites and elsewhere, such as Chilton and Mitchell repair manuals.

    They argue that widespread dissemination of all repair data presents security and safety risks. For instance, they say it makes it possible for an independent technician to alter emissions and safety systems.

    Today’s vehicles are complex and equipped with about 250 different computerized systems.
    Because of that, dealerships employing master mechanics are the best places to go for major repairs, says Ryan LaFontaine, general manager of the LaFontaine Automotive Group, a Highland, MI, dealership representing several GM brands.

    Washbish replies: “The facts speak for themselves. There are 930,000 bays at independent shops in the U.S. and 280,000 at dealerships. The 930,000 bays need the codes.”

    A former dealership manager notes the issue also centers on access to the special tools that auto makers only sell to their dealerships – at inflated prices, he adds.

    “I sometimes used to loan tools to independents to complete repairs, although I was tempted to be a jerk about it,” he tells Ward’s. “But if the independent bought parts from me, I’d help him out with a tool.”
    Meanwhile, Washbish proposes the establishment of so-called hybrid repair facilities. They would be independent shops auto makers authorize to do warranty work and such.

    LaFontaine supports the concept of satellite service centers, but ones that dealers own and operate.
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    The Deported Spectre's Avatar
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    You mean like the Right To Repair Act that was proposed by the Republicans and shot down/stonewalled/stalled by the Democrats in committee in 2005?

    Or the one that was proposed by a non-car-manufacturing-state Democrat and shot down/stonewalled/stalled by the Democrats in 2007?

    Yeah.... with all the contributions paid by the Big Three and the unions, this is notgonnahappen.com.
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    Can you actually present an argument as to why it definitely won't pass this time around without just resorting to the "LOL UAW" lowest common denominator?
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    Blind_Io's Avatar
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    With a major part of the automakers being publicly owned, this is the best chance we've ever had of getting this through. I'm not saying it will happen, but it's never been so promising.
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    The Deported Spectre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbert View Post
    Can you actually present an argument as to why it definitely won't pass this time around without just resorting to the "LOL UAW" lowest common denominator?
    Easy. Given the current Congress's micromanagement of all their bailed out corporations, they are definitely going to be uninterested in anything that could possibly interfere with any potential profit returns (save for various ideological idiocies) in any of their owned corporations.

    And, since Congress and Obama own GM now, guess what they're not going to be passing any time soon. This would gravely reduce GM repair income if it came to pass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blind_Io View Post
    With a major part of the automakers being publicly owned, this is the best chance we've ever had of getting this through. I'm not saying it will happen, but it's never been so promising.
    The funny thing about this is that the worst offenders of the "no documentation for you!" type.... are the former Big Three. Most of the other makers (save for BMW and VAG) are pretty good about releasing documentation. Consider that you can buy full documentation (or could, until the sale to Tata) on the X300 or X308 Jaguars for $20 from Jaguar, for example - or that you can get full documentation on most post 95 Nissans for $25, direct from Nissan. Even Mercedes has a service for their 93-up (IIRC) vehicles that gets you all the docs for a reasonable fee.

    Blind: Yes, that includes your XTerra. You can get the service manuals for about nothing from Nissan.

    Edit: Note that I do not necessarily oppose the idea of the bill; I simply don't see it happening when the government now has a vested interest in not passing such legislation. It wouldn't affect me either way, I have full documentation on all my vehicles and couldn't care less about the lack of documentation for UAW-made vehicles that I will never buy.
    Last edited by Spectre; October 14th, 2009 at 3:37 AM.
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    Blind_Io's Avatar
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    Good to know... since I just bought the Haynes manual fro PepBoys today.
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    The Deported Spectre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind_Io View Post
    Good to know... since I just bought the Haynes manual fro PepBoys today.
    At least you'll have adequate jack padding for when you work on it.

    http://www.nissan-techinfo.com/

    Nissan dropped the price to $19.99, too. Next time, you should ask first.
    Last edited by Spectre; October 14th, 2009 at 3:50 AM.
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    Blind_Io's Avatar
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    All I can find by searching is a Service Manual Bulletin, not the full manual. Where did you find it?
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    http://www.nissan-techinfo.com/deptsubs.aspx

    IIRC, you have to subscribe before you can find all the documentation they have. Once you subscribe and log in, you can d/l manuals in PDF form to your heart's content.

    Edit: Yes, it's on there.
    Last edited by Spectre; October 14th, 2009 at 4:05 AM.
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