This just in: GM has no idea how to make eco friendly cars!

[thedguy]

General Motors puts Zeta rear-wheel-drive revolution on hold

General Motors may be forced to scrap or significantly rethink its rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform vehicles, according to a new report in the Chicago Tribune. "We've pushed the pause button. It's no longer full speed ahead," Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said.

"It's too late to stop Camaro, but anything after that is questionable or on the bubble," he said. This includes the next-generation Imapla — "if we call it Impala," he cautioned. Until now, GM was widely expected to build its Impala replacement on the RWD Zeta architecture, plus a number of other vehicles, including a new Pontiac GTO, Buick sedan, Chevy Monte Carlo, a Cadillac model, and more. The Pontiac G8 also rides on the platform.

Lutz blamed new government regulations proposed by the Bush administration. The proposal aims to gradually raise corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards to average 34 mpg by 2017.

"We don't know how to get 30 percent better mileage from [rear-wheel-drive cars]," Lutz said. "We'll decide on our rear-drive cars when the government decides on CO(-2) levels and CAFE regulations," he added.

"Carbon dioxide is a natural byproduct of burning gas and directly proportional to the amount of fuel burned. If we legislate CO(-2) from cars, why not legislate we take one less breath per minute since humans release capricious amounts of CO(-2) each time they exhale?" he argued.

Lutz said increasing efficiency is not nearly as easy as environmentalists claim. "Academics assure us that for $200 we can get 30 percent better mileage. If anyone can figure out how to do that for $200 — or even for $1,000 — I want them in my office today. Show me how to do it and we'll adopt it," he said. "If I could increase mileage by 30 percent for $200, why wouldn't I? What's my motivation not to when a gas-electric hybrid gets 27 percent better mileage and I hope someday to get the cost down to $9,000?"

"Small-car mileage only counts toward CAFE if you build them here, and you can't build small cars here at a profit," Lutz said.

Source

In all seriousness, this is a bit of a bummer. I still don't understand why no one can build a sub $20k small engined, peppy, rwd car. I.E. A modern AE86 or BMW 4 cylinder 3 series.

[jayhawk]

They can, it is just that the car industry follows the fashion trends, and as such, big honking SUV's and cars are all the rage. And the big 3 are usually the last to retool in order to meet the next new trend. Also, believe it or not, they want to make...a profit! OH THE HORROR!!

Reading the article, it looks like GM is thinking about 10-15 years ahead. That is good, because currently and in the past they were usually 10-15 years behind.

And I am sure many people ask this to themselves: why not just sell Opels here in North America? Same goes for Ford, also.

[jetsetter]

Nothing will happen. They have already invested billions in the new platforms and tooling. Lutz is just trying to shake things up.

Something else to support my claim:

While GM may have put its RWD ambitions on hold for the time being, rival Ford still has plans for a new rear-drive architecture. Ford North America president Mark Fields said the first vehicles would arrive within the next five years, according to the latest GoAutoNews newsletter.


"I'd say that we are looking at that very, very closely," Fields said. Like GM's Zeta platform, Ford's new RWD architecture will also come from Australia.

It's not known if the next-generation Mustang will also share the platform, or if it will continue on its own architecture. The Mustang will receive a facelift for the 2009 model year, and a complete redesign — with a new platform — for 2012.

Earlier this year, Ford revealed the Interceptor concept, which was built on a modified Mustang platform.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/ford-exp...html#more-4966

GM will not let Ford just corner that market. Also consider that if GM does stop RWD development that have no next generation platform for current models. They will have nothing to sell.

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by jayhawk

Reading the article, it looks like GM is thinking about 10-15 years ahead. That is good, because currently and in the past they were usually 10-15 years behind.

And I am sure many people ask this to themselves: why not just sell Opels here in North America? Same goes for Ford, also.

Ever hear of Saturn?

[Wizegui]

So can't they make the cars smaller and lighter so it doesn't need a V8 to power it? I was thinking in terms of the 3 series, or 5 series. Give it something like a 3.5 V6 and that should sound right.

[edkwon]

So what does this mean, GM lacks the engineering talent and ability to build RWD cars that can CAFE standards or they just don't want to bother?

oh well, another crippling blow to the slow forward moving progress of american engineered performance. this was a pretty unexpected development.

[bartboy9891]

Originally Posted by jetsetter

Nothing will happen. They have already invested billions in the new platforms and tooling. Lutz is just trying to shake things up.

Something else to support my claim:



GM will not let Ford just corner that market. Also consider that if GM does stop RWD development that have no next generation platform for current models. They will have nothing to sell.

Don't forget Chrysler, they've been making a move on the RWD market and will continue that with their upcoming Challenger. It would be suicide if GM axed all the cars they boldly claimed they were going to produce.

[jayhawk]

Originally Posted by thedguy

Ever hear of Saturn?

Yes, you silly ass, I have heard of Saturn... But I think that not all Vauxhall / Opel models should be limited to one edition. If there is one thing GM does quite well, it is platform sharing.

How about offering diesels? If I had a long commute, I would certainly buy a subcompact diesel and enjoy 50-70 mpg on the interstates.

[Hidden_Hunter]

Originally Posted by Wizegui

So can't they make the cars smaller and lighter so it doesn't need a V8 to power it? I was thinking in terms of the 3 series, or 5 series. Give it something like a 3.5 V6 and that should sound right.

Zeta is already powered by a v6 here in aus.

[SoxXpupPeT]

omfg thats so f#cking F#ucked up! i really hate bush.

[thedguy]

In this particular case, I wouldn't complain. CAFE has been going down over the past 20 years. Toyota in the early 80's was around 32, and now it's down below 29. This was from an article I read a 4-5 years back, those numbers may have changed.

This would force them to put a bit more effort into making fuel efficient vehicles throughout the range. And it's not like GM doesn't know how to do it (The original title was just a joke), look at the z06 vette, 7.0 v8 and 500 hp, gets 28mpg with the cruise control on.

And for those that don't know "CAFE" stands for "Corporate Average Fuel Economy". Any vehicle under 8500lbs produced by a company is averaged, and if that number is below the average, they pay a fine... it's all in the link.

[IVIaster]

Originally Posted by SoxXpupPeT

omfg thats so f#cking F#ucked up! i really hate bush.

What you mean? Finally Bush does a decision to regulate emission to get you off your stupid pickups, although much rather regulate the factories.

[jetsetter]

Originally Posted by IVIaster

What you mean? Finally Bush does a decision to regulate emission to get you off your stupid pickups, although much rather regulate the factories.

Lol, what an ignorant ass.

[NAIDANAC A]

Originally Posted by jetsetter

Lol, what an ignorant ass.

x2 for good. Measure. So um... I heard of this pattern going on that every 4th president gets assasinated and that Bush is the 4th Pres...why hasn't it happened?

[tigger]

Originally Posted by IVIaster

What you mean? Finally Bush does a decision to regulate emission to get you off your stupid pickups, although much rather regulate the factories.

That's a silly post. It makes me laugh. This won't make people not want trucks. This won't make GM not build trucks. This will just toss them a little further in the hole they've been rather admirably dragging themselves out of.

The problem isn't GM's cars (they'd be stupid not to bring the Zetas immediately), it's the trucks. Bush's just pandering to enviromentalists so the Republicans will have something to run on in '08 other than how the Democrats haven't done anything.

Even if this does make it to law, i'm sure as jetsetter noted that the Zeta's will be built. They've got to compete, after all, any company wanting to sell cars in the US will have to meet these criteria or tack a few grand onto the car to cover fines. What would they do, keep building the W-platform lol?

[jetsetter]

keep building the W-platform lol?

It's already on the way out.

[phuckingduck]

Originally Posted by IVIaster

What you mean? Finally Bush does a decision to regulate emission to get you off your stupid pickups, although much rather regulate the factories.

I'm with soxxpuppet, I prefer an '82 Impala for any load over a ton. The extra wide bed really helps when moving large loads, and the step just to the rear of the cab helps too

Lutz is just trying to juice GM's financial situation for some sympathy. They can do it, they just don't want too. And they can do it without extreme price increases, again, just trying to grab headlines.

[BlaRo]

Originally Posted by jetsetter

Lol, what an ignorant ass.

Watch out guys, no more mister nice guy anymore. Jetsetter ain't pullin' no punches anymore!

[Dsemaj]

Sounds like a soap opera..

[awdrifter]

In the future the only new car we can buy are probably boring hybrids. Hopefully before that happens I'll have enough money to buy a car that I like and own it till I can't drive anymore.