[07x07] May 2nd, 2005

[wrc_maniac]

Hi guys!

Does anyone know where I can download the Top Gear episode from Jan 25 2004? It is no availible on the finalgear. site(http://www.finalgear.com/downloads/topgear/3/10/).

[Cruzz563]

try www.betacars.com, it's free, you just have to register.

[Toni.H]

Thanks for NobleForums's knowledge. I don't know why they take the EVO Vs Noble. I would say they are not same kind of car. How about Tom drive last episode's atom Vs Vicki drive noble? I can see Vicki drive the EVO not very smooth....can do better, right?

Bently's segment ....he's for or against diesel? he said a used 330i is better than 330d, of cos 330i. The blue color of Golf GT..TTTTTDI is boring.....on the other hand, red GTI means Hot? What if they compare a GTI with a GTTDI? Can he drive the car to beautiful street/country side rather than in the old urban area....it's looks boring.

Tom is good.

Thanks Cruzz563

[NobleForums]

The way they film & edit is much like most automotive shows.

For the video footage, they take the flashiest parts, tail out, 4 wheel drift, lots of weight transfer, trail braking, oversteer correction, wheelspin, etc.

For the timed run, they follow correct racing lines, and take as many runs as they can to get the best time (within reason & within the amount of track time they have).

Unfortunately (fortunately?), we cannot draw conclusions on how the timed runs were performed from the video footage. The footage is pure entertainment.

[Kokomo]

Originally Posted by NobleForums

Tires are definitely part of the reason.

http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/evo...sp?strCar1=QD5

The MR FQ-400 uses Yokohama Advan A046 tires, which are ultra-high performance summer tires.


The M400 uses Pirelli P-Zero Corsa's, which are DOT-R semi-slicks.

The closest tire match would be the DOT-R Yokohama Advan A048 tires, like on the Sport Suspension equipped Lotus Elise.

Martin Brundle, an ex-F1 driver tested similar cars for CAR magazine's 2004 Performance Car of the Year article (Dec, 2004) around Anglesey. Here's what he got:

He got about the same gap, but with the FQ-340.

With the much laggier FQ-400, I'm not too surprised Vicki wasn't able to get lower times around such a tight, technical track.

Stig's laptime around the TG track was 1 minute 24.8 seconds for the MR FQ-400. He hit the 2nd to last corner way too hot in the Noble M400 came out very sideways, and got 1 minute 22.2 seconds, slower than the Ford GT.

I was under the impression that the FQ400 was not on the same tires as our US spec Evos, mebbe I'm wrong and that would indeed account for about 2.5 seconds of the time differential depending on how truly aggressive those Pirelli R compounds are.

I know our gumball Hoosiers and are very hard to match but some special Japanese R compounds do match up, I know the Michelin Rs are about half a step slower on an autocross course compared to Hoosiers and Kumho V710s. Putting everyone on Rs would be a more valid test comparison, that seems to be the only big gripe I have with these track time comparos.

Anglesey seems to hold some advantage for lighter cars and/or better braking cars. It seems to drive like a stretched autoX course from the layout. And I'm sure if you throw in someone used to AWD turbo (rally driver or time attacker) you'd see vastly decreased lap times for even the laggy FQ400 (which I still think has no reason to be laggy or have so little bhp). No doubt Brundle is a good driver, but I'd rather see Tarzan Yamada drive it and see what he could do with it because of his familiarity with such cars.

It's really too bad that everyone tests the Vette with the crappy stock tires... having crappy tires was bad enough with the C5, with C6 has even more torque, it's friggin ridiculous. Then again, the Viper is the same way... I wonder how the C6 ZO6 (if FG or TG ever dare test it) will fare.

[andyhui01]

Originally Posted by kokomo

laggy FQ400 (which I still think has no reason to be laggy or have so little bhp)

It is laggy because Mitsubishi in England tuned the car to make the highest horsepower available so there is a selling point for the car... the solution to make 400hp... put a huge ass turbo like a Garett TD-06 or a HKS 3450 turbo... they will produce 400hp without a sweat, but the downside, huge turbo lag... you can't have a turbo that produces 400hp and expect it to lag as little as sequential turbos... no turbo can have the best of 2 worlds...

Originally Posted by kokomo

It's really too bad that everyone tests the Vette with the crappy stock tires...

well... its not really TG or FG's fault that they have to test it with the crap stock tires... isn't it chevrolet's fault for not putting good tires of the corvette in the first place

[astondg]

I wasn't soo much woried with the gap to the Noble, that is to be expected, but that the FQ400 did the same lap time as a standard M3. From all the other tests I have seen a standard (not even MR) Evolution VIII (JDM spec) will be at least as quick (probably quicker) than an M3. And the FQ400 which is an MR version and has an extra 110hp+ isn't any faster, that just doesn't seem right.

I think Mitsubishi in the UK could have made it less laggy than that though. I have seen videos and reviews of other Lancer Evolutions with similar hp, seemingly good reliability, and not as much lag. They still have more lag than the standard car but not as much as the FQ400 seems to have (also going by what was shown on the Top Gear test of the FQ400).

[Liquid_Turbo]

Man. Vicki can't drive

[DV]

Man. Vicki can't drive

yup, she can't mobilize the AYC. I watched the Best Motoring, they were talking about "zero-counter", which means EVO can turn in the corner "over-speed" without counter steer, with the latest AYC. Vicki got a lot of counter steer. A way different from what i saw in the video. The AYC works.

[Skett]

wouldn't the counter steer be because she could drive? If the car requires it and you don't need to give it then its mostly the electronics driving anyhoo

[Viper007Bond]

*shrugs* Seems like Vicki can drive quite well to me. I mean, she's no Tiff, but still...

[bihus]

Originally Posted by Liquid_Turbo

Man. Vicki can't drive

I would bet on her against you, a n y t i m e !
You can say something like this: "She didn't used the best technique to extract Evo's juice" but that she can't drive?
Are you mad?

[Tobias]

Really don't care if she can drive or not, I'd still rather her review a car than Tom.

[NobleForums]

Originally Posted by Kokomo

I was under the impression that the FQ400 was not on the same tires as our US spec Evos, mebbe I'm wrong and that would indeed account for about 2.5 seconds of the time differential depending on how truly aggressive those Pirelli R compounds are.

I know our gumball Hoosiers and are very hard to match but some special Japanese R compounds do match up, I know the Michelin Rs are about half a step slower on an autocross course compared to Hoosiers and Kumho V710s. Putting everyone on Rs would be a more valid test comparison, that seems to be the only big gripe I have with these track time comparos.

Anglesey seems to hold some advantage for lighter cars and/or better braking cars. It seems to drive like a stretched autoX course from the layout. And I'm sure if you throw in someone used to AWD turbo (rally driver or time attacker) you'd see vastly decreased lap times for even the laggy FQ400 (which I still think has no reason to be laggy or have so little bhp). No doubt Brundle is a good driver, but I'd rather see Tarzan Yamada drive it and see what he could do with it because of his familiarity with such cars.

It's really too bad that everyone tests the Vette with the crappy stock tires... having crappy tires was bad enough with the C5, with C6 has even more torque, it's friggin ridiculous. Then again, the Viper is the same way... I wonder how the C6 ZO6 (if FG or TG ever dare test it) will fare.

Unfortunately, according to Mitsubishi UK, the FQ400 does use the A046's.

The Pirelli are not the most aggressive DOT-R's, but they're reasonably competent.

Here's a pretty good basic comparison:

http://www.nobleforums.com/images/on.../tires/gt3.pdf

[Kokomo]

Originally Posted by andyhui01

It is laggy because Mitsubishi in England tuned the car to make the highest horsepower available so there is a selling point for the car... the solution to make 400hp... put a huge ass turbo like a Garett TD-06 or a HKS 3450 turbo... they will produce 400hp without a sweat, but the downside, huge turbo lag... you can't have a turbo that produces 400hp and expect it to lag as little as sequential turbos... no turbo can have the best of 2 worlds...

Well, your statement is generally true... but the point I'm making is that 400bhp out of the 4G63T is almost a walk in the park for that lump. People are easily surpassing that with the stock 8 turbo with good tuning and fuel. So the goal of 400bhp without horrendous lag is very attainable without even the use of an expensive ball-bearing center cartidge turbocharger with only a slightly larger turbocharger.

TG mentioned it must run on Shell Optimax, what US octane would that be? If it's ~98-100octane, it just reinforces my original point that RalliartUK is lazy/bad at tuning. My own POS car puts down 400bhp with a 4G63T daily on a "inferior" turbo with only 5 gears and I have full 20psi/1.5bar boost just past 3300 (albeit I am a slight cheat with 9:1 compression ratio > Evo8, but my turbo is clipped). The US MR's turbo is even slightly better in high end hp and low end torque than the regular US Evo8's turbo and according most tuners, swapping out the factory ECU for an aftermarket standalone (similar to the Motec RalliartUK uses) made big hp gains (+50whp to ~380-390bhp).

Nobleforums, thanks for that awesome article. It's odd to hear so much praise for the Michelins outside of the US where Kuhmos and Hoosiers dominate our amateur motorsports ranks because the Michelins aren't the ultimate in grip. Not too many people use Toyo R compounds either though they seemed comparable to Kuhmo Victoracers with better wear and rain traction.

[andyhui01]

^I agree as well... I know Evo8 pushing 350+ hp just by changing the ECU, Filter and Exhaust... they can hit 400hp without much lag while boosting at 1.3BAR without a sweat... if you look at jasonchiu's dads skyline... the dyno chart is pushing 500hp and if you look at the curve, the turbo comes in at abt 3k

[NobleForums]

Originally Posted by Kokomo

TG mentioned it must run on Shell Optimax, what US octane would that be? If it's ~98-100octane, it just reinforces my original point that RalliartUK is lazy/bad at tuning.

Fuel ratings
RON--- MON--- PON
90----- 83------ 86.6
92----- 85------ 88.5
95----- 87------ 91
96----- 88------ 92
98----- 90------ 94
100--- 91.5---- 95.8
105--- 95------ 100
110--- 99------ 104.5

UK: RON
US: PON ([R+M]/2)

It's not exact. Optimax is said to be "optimistic". It's probably roughly equivalent to Sunoco's Ultra 94 grade.

[Skett]

The thing you have to remember though is that the car is meant to be sold to the public, it is not a racing car, therefore it has to be reasonably fuel efficient and safe. I suspect that ralliart could well make a more powerful or less laggy version but it would not fulfill these criteria as well.

Could be wrong though, I don't know much about the evo