Whats the story with Hot Hatch's...

[fbc]

Originally Posted by watto

Correct you are. We had it before any other market in the world!!!!!except Germany I think

Correct first time - we had the GTI before anyone, including ze chermans

[HeadRusch]

I think car enthusiasts can't be limited to low-HP sportscars, nor can they be limited to high-HP and high weight muscle cars, it really does depend on what the individual user likes. A car enthusiast might run an old 60's MG, or he/she might run in a 400hp Viper, its all the same thing.

One other thing I've found between cultures is that over in Europe, they love their Rally Racing..they love their Formula 1 and track racing.....Here in the states, those sports are almost nonexistant. Europe has a much richer and more diverse car racing culture than we do here in the States, where NASCAR and its ilk dominate. <Shudder>

And man...Nascar..SUCKS...

[Karoug]

I drive a 450 bhp Golf 3 Vr6 syncro.. I get both the hot hatch and the huge power!

[Steve Levin]

Nah, I know that sportiness comes in many forms. I actually had an MR-2 before I got the 300 last weekend -- so I went from just about the smallest thing to the largest. Prior to the MR-2 I had a Saleen-modified and supercharged Mustang convertible

http://www.interceptor.com/~thumper/saleen.jpg

which was, in all truth, the closest I've had to a true hairy chested, wicked, only marginally driveable street car

I was just back-trolling against some earlier rhetoric.

All that said, the 300's by far the best composed and balanced machine I htink I've owned. You've definitely got to work the automatic so as to keep the revs in the right place, but I have to say, I feel like I can slide like Tiff in it, with the smooth powerband and high polar moment it has

Steve

[ishigakisensei]

Originally Posted by Steve Levin

You don't need attention when you have horsepower

Power is nothing without control - something that both you and you car are sorely lacking.

[Steve Levin]

Originally Posted by ishigakisensei

Power is nothing without control - something that both you and you car are sorely lacking.

Glad your feel that way -- a hot hatch owner, I suppose?

[Redliner]

Originally Posted by Steve Levin

Glad your feel that way -- a hot hatch owner, I suppose?

I don´t know if he owns a hot hatch or not, but you deserved it.
Your answer was just plain stupid.

[teeb]

Originally Posted by Steve Levin

Glad your feel that way -- a hot hatch owner, I suppose?

I can have as much fun in a 45bhp original Mini as in a Ferrari Enzo.

Probably more so most of the time, as you can actually use all the Mini's power on normal roads.

[Labcoatguy]

Boys, boys! No need to bash each other for making over-the-top statements; just remember, WWJD (What Would Jeremy Do)?

[jeffy777]

Originally Posted by teeb

I can have as much fun in a 45bhp original Mini as in a Ferrari Enzo.

HA, that's just a funny thought I'm not doubting you, BTW, but have you driven an Enzo?

[teeb]

Originally Posted by jeffy777

HA, that's just a funny thought I'm not doubting you, BTW, but have you driven an Enzo?

To be honest I doubt I'll ever get to drive an Enzo [I have driven an original Mini though!]; it's not the specific cars involved, but the point.

You can have fun in any car - not only ones with massive horsepowers, which was what someone was trying to say.

[llpc60]

drive a 05 mustang for example with tons oh HP and you can see that more HP means nothing (assuming you have driven the original mini)

[rove80]

If you have a Crysler 300 whatever, a big Merc, a Porsche Boxster or Cayman then i challenge you to live to a (not very tight i must admit) budget in the UK and enjoy driving it without thinking about the £100+ you just spent on Petrol. I challenge you further (you in the US) to take your car around roads where i live (very tight "corners" hardly any straight bits and hump back bridges) as quickly as I can in my wifes Golf GTi and enjoy doing it (living to talk about it is optional).

As someone else in the US said your cars suck ass big time Thats said there is nothing that would make me buy a Japanese truck (pick up) over an American one (even if i did need to spend thousands on a new interior. Tupperware plastic is better quality than some US dashboards are NOT a good look Y'all) Landrover still make the best SUV on the market and have done for 30 years or more



As you were

[Steve Levin]

If I lived in the UK -- which, as I've pointed out, isn't particularly car-friendly -- I probably wouldn't have the 300 (although, that said, when I worked in London itself for three weeks I had an E270 Merc, and managed not to knock any of the corners off it driving round the City every day).

I won't claim it gets great mileage -- lightfooting it about town I'm getting right at the 14mpg Chrysler said it would get. I haven't done a long road trip in it yet, but checking on some quick freeway (motorway) bits indicates that the claimed 20mpg on the highway is a spot on figure as well.

That said, one of the great glories of living in California is that you are typically not very far from some of the more challenging stretches of road about (admittedly, moreso in Los Angeles, where I grew up, but there's still some good streatches up here in the San Francisco area where I live now).

I've had the car three weekends and have taken it out on two of them. Yes, it's a larger car, but it has excellent balance, and, with the traction control off, and be rotated from either end quite easily, so whipping around even the tightest of hairpins is not a significant issue (assuming you've turned off the traction control, of course). The Brembo brakes haul it down very quickly when asked, without complaint, and it has more than enough grip to start the launch out of the corner early and rapidly. The fact that it's an automatic is far less of a hindrance than I expected; realisitically, on fairly tight roads, you are primarily in second gear, with brief trips up ito third (although keep in mind that if you wind it out in third you will be exceeding any legal speed on any road in the US). Using 1st is only needed for the tightest of turns where you really want to rotate the back of the car -- otherwise, the car will pull strongly from virtually anywhere in 2nd.

So don't for a minute think the 300 is anything other than a wicked, gobsmacking FAST car that would eat a Golf GTI up through the grill and spit it out the exhaust, because that's exactly what would happen. Throw in even small straights between corners and the Golf wouldn't be able to stay in the smae time zone.

Steve

[Beni]

Originally Posted by Steve Levin

So don't for a minute think the 300 is anything other than an eleven year old mercedes...

8)

[Peter3hg]

Originally Posted by Steve Levin

If I lived in the UK -- which, as I've pointed out, isn't particularly car-friendly -- I probably wouldn't have the 300 (although, that said, when I worked in London itself for three weeks I had an E270 Merc, and managed not to knock any of the corners off it driving round the City every day).

I won't claim it gets great mileage -- lightfooting it about town I'm getting right at the 14mpg Chrysler said it would get. I haven't done a long road trip in it yet, but checking on some quick freeway (motorway) bits indicates that the claimed 20mpg on the highway is a spot on figure as well.

That said, one of the great glories of living in California is that you are typically not very far from some of the more challenging stretches of road about (admittedly, moreso in Los Angeles, where I grew up, but there's still some good streatches up here in the San Francisco area where I live now).

I've had the car three weekends and have taken it out on two of them. Yes, it's a larger car, but it has excellent balance, and, with the traction control off, and be rotated from either end quite easily, so whipping around even the tightest of hairpins is not a significant issue (assuming you've turned off the traction control, of course). The Brembo brakes haul it down very quickly when asked, without complaint, and it has more than enough grip to start the launch out of the corner early and rapidly. The fact that it's an automatic is far less of a hindrance than I expected; realisitically, on fairly tight roads, you are primarily in second gear, with brief trips up ito third (although keep in mind that if you wind it out in third you will be exceeding any legal speed on any road in the US). Using 1st is only needed for the tightest of turns where you really want to rotate the back of the car -- otherwise, the car will pull strongly from virtually anywhere in 2nd.

So don't for a minute think the 300 is anything other than a wicked, gobsmacking FAST car that would eat a Golf GTI up through the grill and spit it out the exhaust, because that's exactly what would happen. Throw in even small straights between corners and the Golf wouldn't be able to stay in the smae time zone.

Steve

The fact is a typical family with 2.4 kids don't need a great hulking giant.
Theres no need for extra space than is provided by a Golf (I fit comfortably in the back and I'm 6ft2). Theres also no point paying for twice the amount of fuel when you can go just as fast in a hatchback.
The R32 is only 0.1 seconds slower to 62mph than the 5.7 Hemi 300c so I can't really see any way the 300C would leave it in a different "time zone". Infact with any corners the GTi would kick the 300C into the middle of next week.

[sandor_]

5000 sq ft (465 sq meter) houses
7 seater hulking 5000+ pound SUVs for a family of 3
40+ inch waist lines


'muricah has an addiction to large things, personally i find it appalling. i think my 328 is a huge car. and honestly, i can fit more into my (smaller) golf than into the 328 (all thanks to the undeniably convenient hatch)


give me a small car with a decent engine (say, a 2400 pound 911 with a 220 hp 3.2..... ) and ill love it-the hatchback simply makes it that much easier to have that one car as your only car. as my cousin in Budapest said on his first visit to 'muricah "Its not that your big cars are bigger, its that what you call a small car is our family car" so true, the golf and civic are small cars for america, we dont even understand what the polo or the punto is...

[Redliner]

Originally Posted by sandor_

as my cousin in Budapest said on his first visit to 'muricah "Its not that your big cars are bigger, its that what you call a small car is our family car" so true, the golf and civic are small cars for america, we dont even understand what the polo or the punto is...

So true. Our average-size cars are "subcompact" in the US. And our big sedans are "medium size". I always found that amusing.

[Steve Levin]

Originally Posted by peter3hg2

The fact is a typical family with 2.4 kids don't need a great hulking giant.
Theres no need for extra space than is provided by a Golf (I fit comfortably in the back and I'm 6ft2). Theres also no point paying for twice the amount of fuel when you can go just as fast in a hatchback.
The R32 is only 0.1 seconds slower to 62mph than the 5.7 Hemi 300c so I can't really see any way the 300C would leave it in a different "time zone". Infact with any corners the GTi would kick the 300C into the middle of next week.

First off, What I have isn't the 5.7 litre 300C. I have the 6.1 litre SRT-8, whch has 85 more horsepower.

Don't get me wrong. I think, for example, the R32 is a great car given the confines of the UK, for example, where streets are smaller, parking is harder, and fuel is taxed out what we'd call "the wazoo" here in the States. And it's fast and all wheel drive -- not a bad package at all.

But to say there's "no reason" to own an SRT-8; that I disagree with. In the States, the penalties (fuel burn, etc.) simply don't outweigh the absolute advantage (roomier and faster).

As far as fitting into a Golf, I find that sure, you can fit in it, but it's not nearly as comfortable. I mean, you can fit into a Ka, but I don't consider it ideal, either.

The GTI as sold in the US right now (Mk. V with the 2.0T) has less than half the power (200) and still weighs 75% as much (3160lbs versus 4160 for the SRT-8). It would have zero chance of even being close to the SRT-8. The R32 would be a closer challenger, perhaps, but still well behind; especially in more real world (non-track) conditions where you aren't driving 10/10th the torque makes a huge difference.

I find the "Everything in America is big and overblown" just as annoying as I'm sure you folks find my "everything in the UK is small, underdone, and an excuse for not being able to do better." That was really my original point of posting -- that such statements -- in both directions -- are utter baloney.

Anyone in the San Francisco area has an open invitation to check the car out -- although you have to pay for your own tickets!

Steve

[Peter3hg]

SRT-8 £40,000. R32 Dsg £25,000. I don't care that its cheaper for you Americans as the thread is about the European obsession with Hot Hatches. This entirely explains why we like them, they are relatively cheap, very practical and can still beat most cars on the road in performance terms.