SILLY SEASON 2009/2010

[mapesy18]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/8322334.stm

Button to McLaren rumor. Has this been posted yet?

[GraemeH]

The article makes a good point;

It could be either a means for Button to get Brawn to up their offer to him, or it could be a way of McLaren trying to persuade Raikkonen to make up his mind.

The above is likely on both fronts (moreso the former), but if it's true; let's say Barrichello goes to Williams and Button to McLaren - Where does that leave Brawn for drivers? There's no top talent at bargain prices left for next year. If they're only willing to pay around £3m even for a champion, who else is even an option?

Brawn could end up with a couple of turkeys next year.

Originally Posted by be-ach

http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/story/?id=295690

Interesting.... 2011 is a ways off and even then, this probably isnt happening, but I wouldn't mind seeing it.

I believe Kyle can win a world championship in Formula One

lolwut.

[Red_Bull]

Well Rosberg for one, and Heidfeld, Kovalainen and Glock are all still seeking drives for next year.

[MadCow809]

Kimi has unfinished business in F1, which is why he is still looking for options before making his final decision. I think he wants to stay around, but won't compromise his status with a crappy team or a crappy salary.

I believe all this Button talk from McLaren is a hurry up call to Kimi. I'm sure BrawnGP can sign up a deal with Jenson without too much hassle.

so....2010:

BrawnGP-> Button+Rosberg (should be a pretty good combination)
McLaren-> Kimi+hamilton (smells like a shit combination, ready for some thick internal trouble)
Williams-> Ruby
ForceIndia-> Same
Ferrari-> Eyebrows+Massa (beware....a very deadly force for 2010)
RedBull-> Same
Toro Rosso-> Same?
BMW-> meh...
Renault-> Kubica

[ahpadt]

Button + Hamilton sounds like a pretty good combination to me. Kimi can go to Ross.

[Dr_Grip]

What would be fun for everyone but the drivers and the team forced to work with them would be to throw the two non-teamplaying, overinflated-ego youngster drivers in one team: Hamilton and Piquet. While Hamilton at least has some talent to back up his ego (eventhough i still think he's not one of the top five drivers on the grid), both are assholes of a phenomenal size and would provide for an even bigger soap opera than Hamilton/Alonso did.

Sadly, no one at McLaren would be stupid enough to touch Piquet. No one at any established team would be.

[Sir Stiggington]

McLaren not interested in bidding war

By Glenn Freeman Saturday, October 24th 2009, 09:14 GMT

McLaren LogoMcLaren is not interested in being part of a bidding war for any driver over the winter, according to Mercedes-Benz motorsport boss Norbert Haug.

Several high-profile drivers have been linked to the seat alongside Lewis Hamilton at the team next year, including Kimi Raikkonen and Nico Rosberg.

But with teams like Toyota also understood to be chasing a top-line driver for its 2010 line-up, Haug says that McLaren will not consider any driver that is more interested in a big-money deal than race-winning car.

"Kimi is an option, but there are lots of options around," Haug told AUTOSPORT. "One thing is for sure though - guys who are out for money are not the right ones for us – whoever it may be.

"I won't name anyone, but we want to have full commitment from someone who is success-oriented, not someone saying 'I am a big name, pay me a lot of money and I will drive for you.'

"The team has to be convinced that a driver is hungry, motivated, focused, and that his first thought is not to get more money."

Haug believes that McLaren's form in the second half of the season proves that it will be a regular contender for wins again next year.

"We have shown our level of competitiveness – Lewis has scored race wins and podiums, and beaten the guys that have been going for the title this year," he added.

"It shows that we are going in the right direction. We have stabilised this year, and we have a seat to offer in a race-winning car. There are probably three, four, five teams maximum that can offer that."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79720

Looks like Kimi is out the window...

[ladora]

This is fucking annoying. For all we know it might not even be Kimi himself who is the issue here, it could be his managers who are the ones demanding more money.

[Suspense]

lol, "I won't name anyone, but I'm talking about Kimi Raikkonen."

[zephyrus17]

Could just be a way to divert attention? Or a PR stunt?

[Sir Stiggington]

I acutally hope they're serious. Button or Rosberg at McLaren would just be perfect. Although I think the Button thing is just PR.

[ahpadt]

Originally Posted by Sir Stiggington

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79720

Looks like Kimi is out the window...

Button or Rosberg, please!

[ladora]

Originally Posted by ahpadt

Button or Rosberg, please!

ROARRRRRRRRRRR *throws a banana at you*

[Dr_Grip]

Originally Posted by ahpadt

Button or Rosberg, please!

I don't see Jenson leaving Brawn. It just makes incredibly little sense to leave a team that you've supported through diverse incredible lows once they start suceeding.

[Red_Bull]

Well Jenson has shown us on more than one occasion that he's willing to sell to the highest bidder (ditching BAR for Williams, and then ditching Williams for BAR) so for him to be considering McLaren is not beyond the realms of possibility.

Brawn are not widely expected to be able to maintain a consistent championship challenge next season as they don't have the resources to compete with Ferrari and McLaren, who turned their attentions to 2010 months ago. The BGP001 was one of the most expensive and exhaustively developed cars seen in Formula One when Honda wrote off their 2008 campaign early in the season to concenrate on 09. They also wont have the benefit of any trick diffusers or anything like that which gave them such an advantage over the rest of the field at the start of 2009.

So McLaren are willing to pay more and are likely to be at the front of the grid next season. I'd be opening negotiations with them too, or at least use it as a beating stick to up the offer from Brawn. Button has already won the Championship, maybe he'll be satisfied with his lot and simply pad his retirement fund.

[vikiradTG2007]

Originally Posted by Red_Bull

Brawn are not widely expected to be able to maintain a consistent championship challenge next season as they don't have the resources to compete with Ferrari and McLaren, who turned their attentions to 2010 months ago. The BGP001 was one of the most expensive and exhaustively developed cars seen in Formula One when Honda wrote off their 2008 campaign early in the season to concenrate on 09. They also wont have the benefit of any trick diffusers or anything like that which gave them such an advantage over the rest of the field at the start of 2009.

One of the Brawn engineers says that although the BGP001 is good, it's not as good as it could have been; they had to make compromising modifications to fit the engine. He listed, among them, chopping 4 inches off the length of a chassis, which apparently in F1 is not even recommended for a test car. And also, apparently, the BGP 001 is also compromised at some degree in terms of CoG and weight distribution in certain areas. So next year's car, with all this sorted out, might still be a regular challenger for wins. Maybe not for the Championship again, but we should see Ross' team win next year again.

I'd think about 2 or 3 wins next season, maybe more.

[MadCow809]

Originally Posted by vikiradTG2007

One of the Brawn engineers says that although the BGP001 is good, it's not as good as it could have been; they had to make compromising modifications to fit the engine. He listed, among them, chopping 4 inches off the length of a chassis, which apparently in F1 is not even recommended for a test car. And also, apparently, the BGP 001 is also compromised at some degree in terms of CoG and weight distribution in certain areas. So next year's car, with all this sorted out, might still be a regular challenger for wins. Maybe not for the Championship again, but we should see Ross' team win next year again.

I'd think about 2 or 3 wins next season, maybe more.

And here is the sauce.

"I knew we'd made a number of big steps over the cars we'd done before, but even so, we'd had two years of dogs, and I thought the bloody aerodynamicists had got their numbers wrong again."

Then, with less than a month before the start of the season, Honda decided that letting the team go under would not be a good idea, and a deal was struck whereby Brawn would buy it out and Honda would provide enough money to go racing for a season, after which Brawn GP would be on their own.

So with three weeks to go before the season opener in Australia, the Brawn GP 001 finally hit the track - and it was true to its creators' predictions.

It was the fastest thing in the field by a mile, and Jenson Button went on to win six of the first seven races, the foundation for the championship he finally clinched on Sunday.

What is less well known, though, is that the car is, in the words of my source, "a botch job".

It was designed for a Honda engine, and it was not until December that the team knew they would be using a Mercedes. That necessitated some pretty crude changes.

"The chassis had the back six inches cut off to fit the engine in - the sort of thing you wouldn't normally do even with a test car," says my source. "And the gearbox was in the wrong place because the crank-centre height is different. There's a massive amount of compromise in the cars."

Those compromises introduced a significant performance deficit into the Brawn car, but it raced like that all year.

That is because the lead time on making a new chassis is several months, and at the time the team would have had to make the decision - in April - the car was dominating.

By the time it had dropped off the pace, and it was obvious the team needed the extra speed that would come with a bespoke chassis and improved weight distribution, it was too late to commission a new design.

Just as incredibly the team, tight on budget, made only three chassis all year - one for Button, one for Rubens Barrichello, and a spare - when a big-money outfit such as McLaren will typically make seven or eight.

That the Brawn was so quick in the circumstances is incredibly impressive.

Having a Mercedes engine rather than the uncompetitive Honda undoubtedly made a big difference. But clearly the team had also made a quantum leap with the car. And that says a lot for the way Ross Brawn, who joined too late to make any impression on the 2008 car, was able to marshal the team's resources better than had been done before.

Brawn has now won nine F1 drivers' titles and eight constructors' championships with three different teams - adding his own to Benetton and Ferrari. Button is the first driver other than Michael Schumacher to be crowned under his guidance. But pinning down exactly what makes the softly spoken 54-year-old Englishman the best technical manager in F1 is surprisingly difficult.

"It's amazing - it's all very subtle," says the Brawn insider. "It's almost like you don't know he's doing it.

"He has meetings, and he talks about how he thinks things should be done in the future and so on, and because his reputation is second to none, you don't question where it's coming from. But he doesn't come into the drawing office very much.

"He doesn't tell everyone what to do, he just leaves us to get on with it. He's not autocratic by any stretch of the imagination. He just gives people the confidence to do what they can do, and removes their concerns as they come up.

"The big thing is having the technical organisation he wants and letting them get on with it. It's a strange thing, because it's the same bunch of people who last year designed a dog."

This season has been far from an easy ride, though.



The early races were marred by the controversy over Brawn's 'double diffuser', which was eventually declared legal - and was never the sole reason for the car's performance.

While that was going on, Brawn had to cut something like 270 jobs to suit his new, more straitened, circumstances - a decision, he admitted on Sunday, which had been very painful.

There were the outbursts by Barrichello when he felt the team were favouring Button - a claim that has been proved unfounded by the evidence of the second half of the season.

Then there was the tricky mid-season period when the team dropped off the pace, and there have been Button's mystifying problems in qualifying that lost him competitiveness on Saturdays compared to his team-mate.

Yet there has never been a sense of crisis, just the same calm, methodical approach that oozes out of every part of Brawn's being.

The brief moment post-race in Brazil when he choked back tears of joy was the only time Brawn has come close to losing control in the 15 years I have known him. And even then he was quickly back to his normal self, predicting that the team would continue to be a force next year.

With Fernando Alonso in what is expected to be a rejuvenated Ferrari, and Lewis Hamilton and McLaren probably back on top form, few would predict a second consecutive title for Brawn and Button - who, incidentally, has still not signed for 2010.

But the team have an unidentified title sponsor already in place, and a Mercedes buy-in on the horizon.

And bearing in mind the travails of Brawn's remarkable journey, and the compromises inherent in their car this year, there is no reason to disagree with the Brawn insider who insists they will at least be "a respectable front-runner".

Considering where they were eight months ago, that speaks wonders for this team and its remarkable boss.

My opinion on this matter? Mercedes can say all kind of crap they want through PR. Reality is that they will be on their knees in front of Räikkönen. Kimi will not lower his status/standard, he knows what he is capable of, so does McLaren. Kimi is their prime option, but they are laying their options out on the table like everyone else.

[Sir Stiggington]

Hamilton: McLaren must pick a team player

By Simon Strang Sunday, October 25th 2009, 11:15 GMT

Lewis Hamilton, 2009Lewis Hamilton says whoever drives the second McLaren in 2010, must help push the team forwards and not be a disruptive influence.

Several drivers, including Kimi Raikkonen, Nico Rosberg, and even the newly-crowned world champion Jenson Button have linked to the team, which is expected to replace Heikki Kovalainen prior to next season.

"I don't mind who comes to the team as long as they come in peace and bring peace and want to be productive and move the team forward," Hamilton told the Daily Mail.

Though Button has indicated that he would like to stay at Brawn, should the two parties find an agreement on contract terms for next season, Hamilton said he would relish the challenge of racing against his countryman in equal machinery.

"I'd welcome Jenson as my team-mate," said Hamilton. "He's a level-headed and very committed guy. He earned the world championship and he's done a great job over the years. I couldn't be happier for him.

"He will be a tough competitor next year - whether at Brawn or McLaren.

"Of course, Jenson is going to be a tough competitor again next year, but all I hope is that I have a chance to actually race with him from the start of the year, not from the halfway point, as happened this season. It would be awesome, insane."

Hamilton added that he had been satisfied with his and McLaren's recovery through the 2009 season after an uncompetitive and controversial start to the season.

"The season has just got better and better for us as a team," he said. "Last weekend's third place finish in Brazil, from 17th on the grid, felt as satisfying as a win.

"Everything happened so quickly, but it eventually has to catch up with you - and this year it all caught up with me. I know I didn't always make the right decisions, but I still performed in the way I would've hoped.

"What happened with the stewards in Australia and continued at the next race in Malaysia was a time in my life when I had to man-up with an apology. I don't think people were given the whole story, but I had to stand in front of the world and say this is what happened and I am sorry.

"It was the hardest time of my life but I hope people accept I am human and can make mistakes. As for quitting Formula 1, I'm not a quitter. But at the time my emotions were running high and I may have said things I hadn't properly thought through.

"The reality is I love racing. I couldn't be happier in the sport than I am now."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79755

This Button thing is looking more and more likely. I can also imagine it would be less disruptive than Kimi, for example.

But on the other hand:

Brawn 'will find a way' to keep Button

By Simon Strang Sunday, October 25th 2009, 12:28 GMT

Jenson Button and Ross BrawnRoss Brawn is all but certain that he will retain the services of the newly-crowned world champion Jenson Button in 2010, as contract negotiations between the two parties remain on-going.

Button is currently out of contract and has been linked to other teams including McLaren, but made it clear after his title victory in Brazil that he would like to stay with the Brawn team in the future.

Brawn told the BBC on Sunday that he also wants the Briton to stay in his squad, but added that the outcome of the talks would depend on finding a balance between Button's salary demands and securing a budget to be competitive next season.

"Jenson's obviously a great driver and for those teams without their full compliment of drivers he has got to be a target," said Brawn. "We want Jenson to stay in the team and I think we will find a solution.

"Jenson has a contract with us, but of course that contract is not the salary of a world champion and not the salary of a team that is now in a much stronger position than it was ten months ago.

"We are working with Jenson to find a balance between what we can afford and what he feels is fair for his status and what he can contribute in the future.

"You are never 100% but I would say 99% [certain it will happen]."

Brawn added that the team and Button had agreed a target of two weeks after the end of the season to agree a deal, but said things could move faster if the two parties can find an accord before then.

"It's a little difficult going into Abu Dhabi because we still want to put up a good performance there so it's not the best environment," said Brawn. "We have set a target of two weeks after the last race to get this concluded, but maybe it will happen before then if we can reach an agreement.

"As I say it's finding this middle ground between what we can afford and it's what we can afford compared to all the other things we need to do with the team.

"We have a finite amount of resource and money and we have to look at the best way of spending that. It's not money that is going to shareholders, it's money that is going into the team to invest and buy the things that we need to be competitive in the future.

"We have a great relationship with Jenson and he has been a wonderful part of the team and he has done a fantastic job this year," he added. "There have been a few difficulties in qualifying this year but his race performances have been exemplary.

"I think it can only go forward from here with Jenson."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79759

Which just leaves Kimi and Rosberg. So now I'm confused...

[vikiradTG2007]

Originally Posted by Sir Stiggington

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79755

This Button thing is looking more and more likely. I can also imagine it would be less disruptive than Kimi, for example.

Erm... no.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79759

Brawn 'will find a way' to keep Button

By Simon Strang Sunday, October 25th 2009, 12:28 GMT

Ross Brawn is all but certain that he will retain the services of the newly-crowned world champion Jenson Button in 2010, as contract negotiations between the two parties remain on-going.

Button is currently out of contract and has been linked to other teams including McLaren, but made it clear after his title victory in Brazil that he would like to stay with the Brawn team in the future.

Brawn told the BBC on Sunday that he also wants the Briton to stay in his squad, but added that the outcome of the talks would depend on finding a balance between Button's salary demands and securing a budget to be competitive next season.

"Jenson's obviously a great driver and for those teams without their full compliment of drivers he has got to be a target," said Brawn. "We want Jenson to stay in the team and I think we will find a solution.

"Jenson has a contract with us, but of course that contract is not the salary of a world champion and not the salary of a team that is now in a much stronger position than it was ten months ago.

"We are working with Jenson to find a balance between what we can afford and what he feels is fair for his status and what he can contribute in the future.

"You are never 100% but I would say 99% [certain it will happen]."

Brawn added that the team and Button had agreed a target of two weeks after the end of the season to agree a deal, but said things could move faster if the two parties can find an accord before then.

"It's a little difficult going into Abu Dhabi because we still want to put up a good performance there so it's not the best environment," said Brawn. "We have set a target of two weeks after the last race to get this concluded, but maybe it will happen before then if we can reach an agreement.

"As I say it's finding this middle ground between what we can afford and it's what we can afford compared to all the other things we need to do with the team.

"We have a finite amount of resource and money and we have to look at the best way of spending that. It's not money that is going to shareholders, it's money that is going into the team to invest and buy the things that we need to be competitive in the future.

"We have a great relationship with Jenson and he has been a wonderful part of the team and he has done a fantastic job this year," he added. "There have been a few difficulties in qualifying this year but his race performances have been exemplary.

"I think it can only go forward from here with Jenson."

Sorry, it looks as though JB is staying put.

[ladora]

And how would Kimi be "disruptive"? Sure he may not talk a lot, but I don't think that can be considered as "disruptive" behaviour.