Will McLaren get rid of their equal policy for 2008?

kekekeke · October 21st, 2007, 08:02 PM

Surely they learnt their lesson this year. I think Ron's policy of letting team mates race at whatever cost is misguided.

You just have to look at Ferrari to see how well a clear 1-2 system works. If a similar setup was implemented at McLaren, with Ferrari's running away and Alonso having no chance at the WDC, Alonso should have been made to play the team game and help secure the WDC for McLaren.

There is a reason McLaren haven't won anything for the past decade. And it's not their lack of pace.

HondaF1 · October 21st, 2007, 08:37 PM

The question is, is Hamilton up to the task of being a lead driver? He made some bad errors/decisions in the latter part of the season that ultimately cost him the championship.

Don't forget he also disregarded team instructions in Hungary and played a part in losing the Constructors and $US50 million.

I honestly dont think he is up to it just yet.

That said, if Alonso does leave then I think we will see someone like a Sutil or Rosberg enter the team and then theres the risk they will do what Lewis did this year to Alonso and upstage him.

So the answer to your question is, we dont know.

kekekeke · October 21st, 2007, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HondaF1

The question is, is Hamilton up to the task of being a lead driver? He made some bad errors/decisions in the latter part of the season that ultimately cost him the championship.

I can only think of two mistakes. And both were result of him racing when he didn't need to. Now I don't know if that would be considered good or bad. For example plenty of people have criticised Alonso for cruising for points in the previous seasons.

Quote:

Don't forget he also disregarded team instructions in Hungary and played a part in losing the Constructors and $US50 million.

There won't be such problems when he is made #1.

Quote:

That said, if Alonso does leave then I think we will see someone like a Sutil or Rosberg enter the team and then theres the risk they will do what Lewis did this year to Alonso and upstage him.

IIRC Hamilton has raced most of the current young generation of F1 drivers in lower formulae and have beaten them.

HondaF1 · October 21st, 2007, 08:45 PM

Lets just agree to disagree then

fbc · October 21st, 2007, 08:49 PM

No, they shouldn't get rid of their policy - the drivers should be equal. If one has the upper hand on track then sure, towards the end of the season, more effort should be put towards their title chances. But if the drivers are performing equally, they should be treated as such.

-Cpt. J.- · October 21st, 2007, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kekekeke

Surely they learnt their lesson this year. I think Ron's policy of letting team mates race at whatever cost is misguided.

You just have to look at Ferrari to see how well a clear 1-2 system works. If a similar setup was implemented at McLaren, with Ferrari's running away and Alonso having no chance at the WDC, Alonso should have been made to play the team game and help secure the WDC for McLaren.

There is a reason McLaren haven't won anything for the past decade. And it's not their lack of pace.

They only need to get rid of the driver that tries to blackmail the team and bribe his mechanics. And I think Ferrari only started to support Kimi as their #1 driver after Massa started to drop in points.

The reason why Mclaren have not bee very competitive is their cars have been very unreliable untill now. When the cars were pushed to match the the speed of their main rivals they broke.

kekekeke · October 21st, 2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Cpt. J.-

They only need to get rid of the driver that tries to blackmail the team and bribe his mechanics. And I think Ferrari only started to support Kimi as their #1 driver after Massa started to drop in points.

That's cos Kimi is new and they didn't know how he would fare against Massa. You can e sure in 2008 Kimi will be #1 from the start.

watto · October 21st, 2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fbc

No, they shouldn't get rid of their policy - the drivers should be equal. If one has the upper hand on track then sure, towards the end of the season, more effort should be put towards their title chances. But if the drivers are performing equally, they should be treated as such.

I agree completely. If the drivers are on an equal (or near enough) footing in the championships, don't rig the results of the race, let them race their hearts out. It'll be more satisfying for the drivers and more satisfying for the spectators to see some exciting racing in F1.

kekekeke · October 21st, 2007, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watto

I agree completely. If the drivers are on an equal (or near enough) footing in the championships, don't rig the results of the race, let them race their hearts out. It'll be more satisfying for the drivers and more satisfying for the spectators to see some exciting racing in F1.

What's good for F1 and spectators is not good for winning WDCs, as seen by today. If McLaren really want to win the WCC and WDC, then they should bring the #1,#2 system to their team just like Ferrari and Renault.

-Cpt. J.- · October 21st, 2007, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kekekeke

That's cos Kimi is new and they didn't know how he would fare against Massa. You can e sure in 2008 Kimi will be #1 from the start.

I very much doubt that will happen.

Necx0 · October 22nd, 2007, 01:39 AM

Kimi doesn't need to be made number 1. He will get number 1 simply by beating Massa fair and square. I expect a Ferrari year next year.

As for McLaren. I don't think Ron will ever change his views. It works best however when one driver is clearly faster than the other, i.e Hakkinen and Coulthard. So I think it will depend a lot on who Hamilton's team mate is next year.

Hazardous · October 22nd, 2007, 05:18 AM

Nah, I can't see Mclaren changing their policy. They have had the policy for years. What I've been reasonably happy about is that Ferrari also used equal policy through the year until the last races when Massa was already out of the running, though that did come quite close to costing Kimi the title (referring to the two points Massa took from Kimi in Istanbul). But in my view that's how it should be.

Devon · October 25th, 2007, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fbc

No, they shouldn't get rid of their policy - the drivers should be equal. If one has the upper hand on track then sure, towards the end of the season, more effort should be put towards their title chances. But if the drivers are performing equally, they should be treated as such.

I agree, although I don't think it should just be McLaren doing this, it should be all teams. But that will never happen.

mclarensmps · October 26th, 2007, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HondaF1

Don't forget he also disregarded team instructions in Hungary and played a part in losing the Constructors and $US50 million.

I was just browsing through the various threads and came across this. For the sake of clarity, it was ALONSO who played a part in the team losing $50 million, NOT Hamilton (This having nothing to do with the incident in Hungary btw).

As far as McLaren's equal policy goes, it's really not going to work is it. According to F1 rules, technically #1 and #2 shouldn't exist, as the FIA enforced at McLaren in Brazil.

If two drivers are on pace with each other, there really is nothing the team can do about it unless it is Ferrari, because the FIA doesn't really care if they do anything wrong.

manniac · October 26th, 2007, 02:35 AM

hi, this is my first post here in a long time, i finally started watching f1 this season, and what a season it was.

i don't think mclaren will change their policy, even tho i think it's the biggest reason that their wdc went down the drain. i agree that teams should supply cars and crews that are equally good to both drivers. but to stand on top of equality so stoically is just plain stupid, there are no ties in f1.

mclaren hired the services of a double world champion and a very fast rookie, disregard the politics, the trash talking, the media bs, the blackmailing and the inability to respect a gentlemen's agreement, common sense tells you where to put your chips and mclaren could not decide where to put them, they let the media and their drivers run the show until it was too late, while repeating their equality litany. if a church of equality existed, mclaren 2007 could be one of their saint martyrs.

it would have been interesting for me to see what ferrari would have done should both their drivers have reach the last race with mathematical possibilities to clinch the title. anybody has an idea?

HondaF1 · October 26th, 2007, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclarensmps

I was just browsing through the various threads and came across this. For the sake of clarity, it was ALONSO who played a part in the team losing $50 million, NOT Hamilton (This having nothing to do with the incident in Hungary btw).

The team were already in trouble, Alonso only went to the FIA because of Hamilton disregarding team instructions in Hungary.

MadCow809 · October 26th, 2007, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kekekeke

Surely they learnt their lesson this year. I think Ron's policy of letting team mates race at whatever cost is misguided.

You just have to look at Ferrari to see how well a clear 1-2 system works. If a similar setup was implemented at McLaren, with Ferrari's running away and Alonso having no chance at the WDC, Alonso should have been made to play the team game and help secure the WDC for McLaren.

There is a reason McLaren haven't won anything for the past decade. And it's not their lack of pace.

F1 has always been a team game, Ferrari played it well this year, clinching the title with Massa's help. As for McLaren, i doubt that Alonso will help Hamilton out, even if its team order. Besides, Hamilton is too immature & too inexperienced to be the lead driver. That said, Alonso is pretty immature too.

HondaF1 · October 26th, 2007, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadCow809

F1 has always been a team game, Ferrari played it well this year, ~~clenching~~ clinching the title with Massa's help. As for McLaren, i doubt that Alonso will help Hamilton out, even if its team order. Besides, Hamilton is too immature & too inexperienced to be the lead driver. That said, Alonso is pretty immature too.

They didnt clench the title images/smilies/tongue.gif

Hamilton isnt a team leader yet. He's young, has won races, but has made some poor setup and tyre choices this year. Team leaders dont do that.

MadCow809 · October 26th, 2007, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HondaF1

They didnt clench the title images/smilies/tongue.gif

Hamilton isnt a team leader yet. He's young, has won races, but has made some poor setup and tyre choices this year. Team leaders dont do that.

arent you great at finding typos images/smilies/tongue.gif

and i never said hamilton is the team leader, im just saying that he is too immature and ~~useless~~ inexperienced to be one

Red_Bull · October 26th, 2007, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadCow809

arent you great at finding typos images/smilies/tongue.gif

and i never said hamilton is the team leader, im just saying that he is too immature and ~~useless~~ inexperienced to be one

Well he wont always be... images/smilies/tongue.gif

October 21st, 2007, 08:45 PM	#4
HondaF1 Aussie Bastard Joined: Dec 8th, 2006 Last Online: May 12th, 2008 Location: SCOTLAND Age: 26 Posts: 4,205 Car: First Aberdeen Bus Network Rep Power: 17	Lets just agree to disagree then __________________ I am the Honda F1 team's number one fan.... and number 2, and number 3, and 4....

October 21st, 2007, 08:49 PM	#5
fbc Mantastic! Joined: Jan 8th, 2005 Last Online: 11:29 AM Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 33 Posts: 9,824 Car: 2006 MY07 Astra SRi Turbo Rep Power: 68	No, they shouldn't get rid of their policy - the drivers should be equal. If one has the upper hand on track then sure, towards the end of the season, more effort should be put towards their title chances. But if the drivers are performing equally, they should be treated as such. __________________ www.sniffpetrol.com

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October 21st, 2007, 08:02 PM	#1
kekekeke Joined: Aug 2nd, 2005 Last Online: September 16th, 2008 Posts: 863 Rep Power: 13	Will McLaren get rid of their equal policy for 2008? Surely they learnt their lesson this year. I think Ron's policy of letting team mates race at whatever cost is misguided. You just have to look at Ferrari to see how well a clear 1-2 system works. If a similar setup was implemented at McLaren, with Ferrari's running away and Alonso having no chance at the WDC, Alonso should have been made to play the team game and help secure the WDC for McLaren. There is a reason McLaren haven't won anything for the past decade. And it's not their lack of pace.

October 21st, 2007, 08:37 PM	#2
HondaF1 Aussie Bastard Joined: Dec 8th, 2006 Last Online: May 12th, 2008 Location: SCOTLAND Age: 26 Posts: 4,205 Car: First Aberdeen Bus Network Rep Power: 17	The question is, is Hamilton up to the task of being a lead driver? He made some bad errors/decisions in the latter part of the season that ultimately cost him the championship. Don't forget he also disregarded team instructions in Hungary and played a part in losing the Constructors and $US50 million. I honestly dont think he is up to it just yet. That said, if Alonso does leave then I think we will see someone like a Sutil or Rosberg enter the team and then theres the risk they will do what Lewis did this year to Alonso and upstage him. So the answer to your question is, we dont know. __________________ I am the Honda F1 team's number one fan.... and number 2, and number 3, and 4....

October 22nd, 2007, 01:39 AM	#11
Necx0 Joined: Jun 21st, 2007 Last Online: 12:22 PM Location: Hobart, Tasmania Posts: 1,620 Car: R31 Skyline Rep Power: 15	Kimi doesn't need to be made number 1. He will get number 1 simply by beating Massa fair and square. I expect a Ferrari year next year. As for McLaren. I don't think Ron will ever change his views. It works best however when one driver is clearly faster than the other, i.e Hakkinen and Coulthard. So I think it will depend a lot on who Hamilton's team mate is next year.

October 22nd, 2007, 05:18 AM	#12
Hazardous Joined: Sep 7th, 2004 Last Online: 04:47 PM Location: Southern Finland Age: 24 Posts: 873 Car: None :/ Rep Power: 19	Nah, I can't see Mclaren changing their policy. They have had the policy for years. What I've been reasonably happy about is that Ferrari also used equal policy through the year until the last races when Massa was already out of the running, though that did come quite close to costing Kimi the title (referring to the two points Massa took from Kimi in Istanbul). But in my view that's how it should be.

October 26th, 2007, 02:35 AM	#15
manniac Joined: Feb 11th, 2006 Last Online: August 2nd, 2008 Posts: 25 Rep Power: 0	hi, this is my first post here in a long time, i finally started watching f1 this season, and what a season it was. i don't think mclaren will change their policy, even tho i think it's the biggest reason that their wdc went down the drain. i agree that teams should supply cars and crews that are equally good to both drivers. but to stand on top of equality so stoically is just plain stupid, there are no ties in f1. mclaren hired the services of a double world champion and a very fast rookie, disregard the politics, the trash talking, the media bs, the blackmailing and the inability to respect a gentlemen's agreement, common sense tells you where to put your chips and mclaren could not decide where to put them, they let the media and their drivers run the show until it was too late, while repeating their equality litany. if a church of equality existed, mclaren 2007 could be one of their saint martyrs. it would have been interesting for me to see what ferrari would have done should both their drivers have reach the last race with mathematical possibilities to clinch the title. anybody has an idea?

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