22,000 Pound 1200BHP Engines.

[feistl]

Hey all,

Why arnt all sports car 1000BHP+???

Now many of you will instantly reply with reasons why engines cant produce 1000BHP cheaply. Well your all wrong. Im from Australia and one of the more common family cars if the Holden Commodore. Now on some models the car comes with a Chevy Gen 3 5.7L V8. Now you can take your completly stock Holden or HSV (sports versions of the standard family car) to many different Workshops and for less than $45,000 Ausralian which is about 18,000 Pounds you can upgrade the engine to produce ~1200BHP.

You can buy brand new Gen 3 engines from $8K AUD (3,200 Pounds).

So in total you can have a 1200BHP engine from around 22,000 Pounds. Why arnt more European sports cars using this engine, or something similar.

Can you imagine a Mid Engined RWD Lotus putting out 1200BHP???

Im just curious why these engines arnt more common. I know they are heavy but surely for the power they put out makes up for it??

Cheers, Errol

EDIT - After more research you can obtian the 1200BHP from as little as 12,000 Pounds although its recommended you upgrade gearboxes, driveshafts, breaks etc which is why a complete upgrade is 18,000 pounds.

[ryosuke]

who needs 1200hp? you're going to have a hard time putting all the power down...

and how reliable are they? what amount of fuel do they use?

[feistl]

The Supercharger kits range from 500BHP @ 1500 pounds to 1200BHP @ 12000 pounds.

So you can pick your power.

As for reliabity you can turn the Supercharges off with a small switch so you can run the engine without boost. These engines will run for 300,000 KMS (188,000Miles) if you take care of them. Under boost they can last up to 150,000 KMS(94,000Miles) (According to the manufactor). So they will run forever and a day. I couldnt get hold of the fuel usage with Boost but without (running N/A) The Average 21.6MPG (im not sure if i got the conversion 100%, but its 13L/100KMS) for Highway/City combined use.

[mmap]

12K Cheap? Just how much are you spending on sports cars? If you spend 30-40K on a sports car then that really is a lot to add. Thats almost a years salary for a lot of people c'mon.

Reliability, The Mitsu fq400 needs a full engine service every 5Kmiles. How often do you think a 1200HP engine needs it? Servicing ain't cheap you know. This needs to be added to the cost of the engine modifications.

And as Ryosuke also mentioned fuel consumption and the shear need for such power. Fuel is bloody expensive here! And what good is 1200HP if your tyres can only put 200 onto the tarmac?

[feistl]

Well the Standard model of the sports cars is about 26K Pounds. They put out about 400BHP. But what i was getting at is for an extra 12K you can upgrade to 1200BHP. You only turn the supercharger on when you need the power. Servicing will be expensive but it wont be that often (unless you constantly run boost).

Supercharged engines need to be serviced a lot less than Turbos (depending on boost etc)

So in total here in Australia you can buy a 1200BHP car from about 60,000Pounds. 26k on the car, 12k on the supercharger and 22k on gearbox, drivetrain, tyres, suspension etc. I mean when you look at what else you can get for 60,000K the Holden isnt a bad choice.

EDIT - We pay 2.50 Pounds/Gallon. (hope ive got the conversion right, its about $1.30AUD/Litre)

[mgkdk]

<-- me thinking "what is this thread doing in the 'Forum' section"

[bartboy9891]

its hard to wrap your mind around something that has 1200bhp and a similar amount of torque. you wouldnt be able to use it at all effectively. And in an elise, it would be hell. the elise suffices with what seems like a small amount of hp, but still manages to tear up tracks.
anything homemade with 1200hp would only be most useful as a dragster.

[bone]

who wants 1200 torque-hps for everyday use? you touch the throttle and you're looking in the direction you were coming from

i'll have high reving BMW 6cyl with 300hp please

[fbc]

Bah, people getting excited about big flashy numbers, it's all about the motor's output being matched to the capabilities of the chassis.

1200bhp is the equivalent of a man being endowed like a, ahem, horse. Sure, it impresses other guys, but it's actually really quite useless...

[youngwarrior]

Originally Posted by feistl

Hey all,

Why arnt all sports car 1000BHP+???

Now many of you will instantly reply with reasons why engines cant produce 1000BHP cheaply. Well your all wrong. Im from Australia and one of the more common family cars if the Holden Commodore. Now on some models the car comes with a Chevy Gen 3 5.7L V8. Now you can take your completly stock Holden or HSV (sports versions of the standard family car) to many different Workshops and for less than $45,000 Ausralian which is about 18,000 Pounds you can upgrade the engine to produce ~1200BHP.

You can buy brand new Gen 3 engines from $8K AUD (3,200 Pounds).

So in total you can have a 1200BHP engine from around 22,000 Pounds. Why arnt more European sports cars using this engine, or something similar.

Can you imagine a Mid Engined RWD Lotus putting out 1200BHP???

Im just curious why these engines arnt more common. I know they are heavy but surely for the power they put out makes up for it??

Cheers, Errol

EDIT - After more research you can obtian the 1200BHP from as little as 12,000 Pounds although its recommended you upgrade gearboxes, driveshafts, breaks etc which is why a complete upgrade is 18,000 pounds.

Whats the point of this? Its a ridicolous thing to do, no one needs such power unless you want to go drag racing, and road driving will be neigh impossible, it will eat fuel. be unreliable and you could get a 2 litre four pot to push out all that power anyway.

[monkeymax]

Originally Posted by feistl

...the car comes with a Chevy Gen 3 5.7L V8.

Can you imagine a Mid Engined RWD Lotus putting out 1200BHP???

Im just curious why these engines arnt more common. I know they are heavy but surely for the power they put out makes up for it??

Okay, a number of valid points have already been touched upon here; I'll try not to repeat them.

But a 5.7L V8 is going to use a hell of a lot of fuel - and there are not many high capacity V8s around in this part of the world - and most of those that there are are attached a nice big Range Rover... Most people who care about how much they're spending on a car (important here seeing as you quote how little you could do this 'upgrade' for) care about the petrol costs and other running costs - in this respect alone this is an unfeasible idea as it'd probably never take off (unlike the car which really would).

But putting a 5.7L V8 in an Elise?! Where? Have you actually seen one of these? The chassis can barely accomodate the engine that's already in there! And frankly something that light with an engine like this - the engine would probably be the same weight as the rest of the car! (If not more!)
What's more - proper Elise tyres cost £250 each. Hooking 1200BHP to them will mean having to replace them at the end of each road...

This is all aside from the whole (and important) reliability side, etc...

[No Boss]

Originally Posted by feistl

As for reliabity you can turn the Supercharges off with a small switch so you can run the engine without boost.

What's the point of having 1200bhp on tap if you're not going to use it all the time?

Originally Posted by feistl

These engines will run for 300,000 KMS (188,000Miles) if you take care of them. Under boost they can last up to 150,000 KMS(94,000Miles) (According to the manufactor). So they will run forever and a day. I couldnt get hold of the fuel usage with Boost but without (running N/A) The Average 21.6MPG (im not sure if i got the conversion 100%, but its 13L/100KMS) for Highway/City combined use.

Do you have any Product reports, Testimonials, or R&D Schedules to back these numbers/claims up?

Originally Posted by feistl

So in total you can have a 1200BHP engine from around 22,000 Pounds. Why arnt more European sports cars using this engine, or something similar.

I'll tell you one reason why.... Ever try to insure a car with 1200bhp?? Also, people like warranties. If you could even get it warrantied I can't even imagine how expensive it would be on a modified car like this.

There are so many things wrong with this "proposal". It's a neat idea to think of having a grocery getter with a million bhp, but it's not practical and it's not safe in our current time. 20 years from now...

[FATMOUSE]

See, there's this nifty thing called balance which masses of power tends to destroy.

Also, can you just imagine the death toll now.

[Blind_Io]

It's my impression that you can do alot to an engine to produce more HP out of the available displacement but it reduces engine life, especially when it comes to big American V8s. Those engines are designed to produce lots of torque and cruise at low RPM - start running it at 5500 RPM and it will start to eat itself.

This is why the Ford GT40 beat Ferarri all those years - that big V8 ticking away under the bonnet while keeping the car well above 100 MPH. As opposed to the Ferarri approach of high HP at high RPM which causes more heat and more engine wear.

The other reason is legal. What if every car had 1,000 BHP? I've seen how some people drive with 150 and it scares me shitless to think of them in a 1000 BHP metal juggernaught. It's not just the engines, but the suspension architecture, springs, dampners, wheels, tires, even the aerodynamics all have to be taken into consideration. For 99% of drivers 1,000 BHP is a one way ticket to a slab in the mourge - we are not trained to drive anything with that much power and the car companies know it.

[GraemeH]

It's not just the engine. Think of the extra wear on the rest of the drivetrain. Are clutches, gearboxes, propshafts, differentials etc cheaply available that can handle 1200bhp?

A 1200bhp engine would suffer in terms of overall balance and drivability anyway.

[KennyStang]

People do this sort of thing in the states all the time for drag racing, they supercharge or turbocharge their V8's and blast down the 1/4 mile. Most of those engines, even fully built ones, don't last more than 10K miles... the chasis even though they have been reinforced often flex and bend to the point the cars are eventually useless.

In most supercars the engine is not the most expensive part of the vehicle, but the chassis. Carbon-Fibre monocoque's are not cheap... neither is the R&D needed to make a semi-reliable supercar with 500hp much less 1000hp

[feistl]

Ok, so 1200BHP is over the top. But what i was getting at is you can choose how much power you want. As i said the basic supercharger model is about $4000 (1600Pounds). The engines brand new range from $3000 to $7000 (2800Pounds).

So for say 4500Pounds you can produce an engine that will last forever that produces 500BHP+, reasonable on petrol (if driven softly) and good power/torque through the rev range. What i was getting at is that these new BMWs, Mercs etc produce 500BHP but the engines are very expensive and complicated.

As for the whole reliability and fuel consumtion well the Chevy V8 is the most common engine in the world. If they constantly broke no one would use them.

Take various Jag models, from memory there was about a 2300Pound difference on the v6 and v8 models, and those V8s only put out 300-400BHP.
Plus the Gen3s run really well on LPG gas (not sure if you guys get it there) while supercharged. So you can produce 450-500BHP on LPG. So its cheap to run, on low boost they dont need servicing very often (20,000-25000KMS) and servicing is cheap (because parts are common).

I understand the downsides, but look at the prices of various other sports cars and for 5000 Pounds you can have a 500BHP engine running on LPG.

EDIT - And yes i do have prof to backup the engines preformance and relability. My Uncle has a HSV VX running 600BHP. Because you can turn the Supercharger off he drives it with 400BHP during the day and when he goes to tracks he boosts the engine to 600BHP. They are slow off the line (as they are heavy and its difficult to get power to the ground) but onces its moving there is heaps of power/torque in low revs which is awesome from accelerating out of corners.
He also has a 2003 Porsche 911 Turbo.

[Ultra_Kool_Dude]

Look how much trouble Bugatti went through to develop a 1001hp car that is actually useable.

Problems
- holding together (everything needs to be incredibly durable)
- balance (a big lump of engine will screw up handling)
- safety
- cost
- reliability
...

[feistl]

Originally Posted by Ultra_Kool_Dude

Look how much trouble Bugatti went through to develop a 1001hp car that is actually useable.

Problems
- holding together (everything needs to be incredibly durable)
- balance (a big lump of engine will screw up handling)
- safety
- cost
- reliability
...

Holding together - In Australia and America cars are built to handle a lot of power. Maybe not 1200BHP but definatly 600BHP. So if you dont go overboard the standard australian family car is built well enough to handle the power.

Balance - The engine is heavy, but is in the same range as any V10 or V12. The mercedes McLaren, BMWs and any of these cars with big engines are balanced well.

Safety - The engines has very little to do with safety. Its about ABS, Traction Control and all those systems to aviod an accident, but if you do have a crash then its up to crumple zones and safety cages.

Cost - a Chevy V8 is cheaper to service and build (at least here in australia than any merc bmw audi or Euro engine/car.

Relability - If these engines and cars can do 180,000miles in Australia (considerably more harse on cars the in the UK) they will run forever and a day. There are many engines that are less than 5 years old that have traveled more than 150,000Miles and are still running well.

All im getting at is these big V8 are cheap to build and easy to upgrade. If you compare any European V8, V10 or V12 the Chevy engines are cheaper.


Have a look at this car
http://tinyurl.com/gv4jo
Dont you think that this is a good looking sports car for 6000 Pounds?

[fbc]

^ You're missing the point - it's entirely possible to have too much power (can't believe I just wrote that ).

If a car is overpowered it can easily destroy the fun and enjoyment of driving it by ruining the balance of the car's handling in relation to it's power.