24 Hours Of LeMons/Final Gear Racing fall 2009

[Serj]

Originally Posted by EyeMWing

1204 laps? Isn't it 1 lap per $10 overbudget? That's a RETARDED amount of money.

yes it is. if you run the numbers on it, it means that any track that ISN'T Nelson Ledges (the only true 24h event) and has more than a 45second lap time, IF THEY FINISH, will still have NEGATIVE LAPS at the end of the race.

In otherwords, if you don't get the curse for that much hella cheating (it would be throwing the curse away anyway) they just wasted their time.

they don't hand out awards for "cheating the most" or "reading the rules the least"

[Punisher Bass]

Further proof it's unwise to fuck with not only the judges, but other teams as well. For those who don't know, several awards are handed out at each race such as People's Choice or what many consider to be even more important than winning the event itself is the Index of Effluency. But along with the good must come the bad, and that is the dreaded People's Curse.

Like People's Choice and the IOE, the curse is chosen via vote from all the teams at the event, but instead of a cash prize, you get your car destroyed. Normally they will employ some sort of claw machine to do the job, but there have been times when the teams themselves have been let lose with tools of destruction.

This most recent example is a BMW 5 series driven by people that figured LeMons hasn't evolved beyond the near demo derby it started as. After dive bombing and brake checking most of the other teams, the votes came in that their car was to face destruction at the hands of the very people they'd pissed off. Jay Lamm said simply "I want a cylinder head" and the people got to work.

But when you look at what has happened to previous curse winners, they got off kind of light in my opinion.

[thedguy]

I don't think they got off "easy" I think this is how the "curse" should go down. I find it's BS that teams spend MONTHS, or more working their asses off building a well setup car (the miata team the recently ran with their car because their last 2 or 3 cars got crushed), only to have it crushed because the guys driving said miata happen to also be skilled seasoned racers.

I see how much work some friends of mine put into their cars and cringe at the thought of it getting demolished by a mob. This is why I've been hesitant to get into doing it myself.

Originally Posted by slowlane

Greetings from the Team Captain of Black Iron Racing (Vince B.) First off, I'd like to say thanks to all the teams who helped out with fixing our car and donating brake fluid and ABS bleeding methods, all the judges and Jay for their kind words of encouragement before and after the curse.

Second, I'd like to set the record straight. No one on the team ever intentionally brake checked or dive-bombed anyone. We did slow down for yellow flags and did certainly pass in braking zones (this isn't a NASA HPDE 1 session, it is a race). We were unfortunately rear-ended by a very nice fellow (who later apologized and had us sign his fender for a breast cancer awareness cause) in a BMW 3-series who didn't notice our car slowing for a fire truck merging onto the track under yellow flag...this is the ONLY reason I can come up with Mr Martin's unfortunate misconception about brake checking. We had many drivers give us compliments on our track ediquette as well as a group of corner workers who went out of there way to give us props on keeping it clean. I won't waste time giving my opinion on why we were crushed, it is better left to philosophers like Aristotle (specifically his treatise on rhetoric, Bertrand Russell, or anyone who has spent time investigating the science of 'Schadenfreude')..but I digress too much.

Last -- the race was a fantastic time 180 laps racing against the best $500 cars in the country, including the 10 minutes of watching the car get "adjusted" by the angry mob and the 90 minutes of "re-adjusting" the car such that it ran again on its own power.

2 sides to every story.

[Punisher Bass]

Originally Posted by thedguy

I don't think they got off "easy" I think this is how the "curse" should go down. I find it's BS that teams spend MONTHS, or more working their asses off building a well setup car (the miata team the recently ran with their car because their last 2 or 3 cars got crushed), only to have it crushed because the guys driving said miata happen to also be skilled seasoned racers.

I see how much work some friends of mine put into their cars and cringe at the thought of it getting demolished by a mob. This is why I've been hesitant to get into doing it myself.



2 sides to every story.

Unfortunately the only side that matters is the one seen by the other teams and the judges. It's the risk you take when you sign up, Jay and company don't like whiners. And the group that had their third miata get the curse didn't get it crushed, they packed their shit and ran before the sentance could be carried out.

[EyeMWing]

Just curious how many feet of cage bar you guys end up using (and how long the biggest piece was). Obviously actual consumption is dependent on how gigantic your car is and cage design, but since your cars are both big yank yachts you guys are a good bet to get a ceiling

I'm running some numbers through Excel to see if I can get a Square-one-through-first-race budget number so I can get commitment from a few possible drivers. I've assumed 60ft (in 20ft chunks) and like the numbers I see.

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by Punisher Bass

Unfortunately the only side that matters is the one seen by the other teams and the judges. It's the risk you take when you sign up, Jay and company don't like whiners. And the group that had their third miata get the curse didn't get it crushed, they packed their shit and ran before the sentance could be carried out.

I know, thats what I said.

Anyhow, friend of mine that attended the race told me what they "saw happen" while working on the cursed vehicle.

Wrench of choice was a Crescent. It was stuck on ANYTHING it would fit around and torqued until bolts would break. This is how the brake master cylinder came off. random bits were dropped down the spark plug holes and into the cam covers.

Impressive they got the car running again.

[Punisher Bass]

The way you worded it, it sounded like you were saying it was crushed when that wasn't the case.

[Serj]

Originally Posted by EyeMWing

Just curious how many feet of cage bar you guys end up using (and how long the biggest piece was). Obviously actual consumption is dependent on how gigantic your car is and cage design, but since your cars are both big yank yachts you guys are a good bet to get a ceiling

I'm running some numbers through Excel to see if I can get a Square-one-through-first-race budget number so I can get commitment from a few possible drivers. I've assumed 60ft (in 20ft chunks) and like the numbers I see.

well, Keep in mind that some kits are $500-$600 just for steel. those kits are pretty generic in application so they have to be modified to fit to make the lemons requirements. Even an Autopower cage kit needs an extra door bar (2 is currently the requirement) and dash bars are highly recommended. I got several quotes well over $1000 and estimates of 100ft of steel. I don't have the exact numbers for the Vic but it was in the same range for just the steel as a kit would be. If you're a good welder and do the labor yourself, you easily could have a cage built to spec for under $800. Even in a small car, I'd get at LEAST 80ft of tubing, as more bracing points never hurt, and it's better to have too much over not enough, especially when estimating costs.

[Serj]

Originally Posted by thedguy

I don't think they got off "easy" I think this is how the "curse" should go down. I find it's BS that teams spend MONTHS, or more working their asses off building a well setup car (the miata team the recently ran with their car because their last 2 or 3 cars got crushed), only to have it crushed because the guys driving said miata happen to also be skilled seasoned racers.

I see how much work some friends of mine put into their cars and cringe at the thought of it getting demolished by a mob. This is why I've been hesitant to get into doing it myself.

2 sides to every story.

thedguy, first off, you should relax about the curse. putting together a good car does NOT mean it'll be cursed. I've even seen some cars that were hella cheatin' not get the curse. Those Miata guys were experts at finding $500 Miatas, and had 2 previously crushed cars. If you show up in a Class8 Tractor-Trailer with a double-height car carrier and NASA/SCCA branding all over it, you're immediately going to draw suspicion. Furthermore, if you show up with EXACTLY the same type of car you normally race in a spec class, you're going to triple the amount of eyes on you at a race. there are HORDES of hella' cheatin' Miatas and BMW E30s at every single one of these events. guess how many of those have won? Exactly TWO. Eyesore racing frankenmiata and the Dorifto Dogs E30. What am I pointing this out for?

You don't NEED to prep the most sinisterly underrated junker to win.
You don't NEED to prep the most obviously hella cheatin' Miata/E30 to win.
You don't NEED to fear the curse if you're Legit so long as you don't drive like a cock.

we've been to...4 events now? and I only know for SURE of ONE single curse vote. why? Well, I don't know, maybe they were intimidated by a 4,000lb car outbraking them into a turn?

The truth is, if you prep a car, and whoever shows up at your pit, you treat them like a new friend, your curse susceptibility is practically ZERO.

I fully endorse going to other people's pits too, admire THEIR hard work. most of the curse recipients have cars that either need THOROUGH documentation to get them any BS cred and/or simply didn't branch out and interact socially with other teams.

Just Keep in Mind that there's even been a race where "aw shucks, everyone's so nice! lets put the curse on Jay's Bus!" and none of the race competitors got their rides flattened by construction machinery or parted out by the masses.

Go in with a clear conscience and a fun attitude, and the only fear you'll have is how much car you have to tear through to fix whatever breaks.

[Punisher Bass]

There was also a time when Jay told the claw operator to take it easy on a crown vic that got the curse. Since he didn't think they had been all that bad, just the sheet metal was removed from the car so it could still get back on the track without any issues.

[Serj]

Originally Posted by Punisher Bass

There was also a time when Jay told the claw operator to take it easy on a crown vic that got the curse. Since he didn't think they had been all that bad, just the sheet metal was removed from the car so it could still get back on the track without any issues.

then it went out and turned the Fastest lap of the day by like 5 SECONDS/Lap.

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by Serj

thedguy, first off, you should relax about the curse. putting together a good car does NOT mean it'll be cursed. I've even seen some cars that were hella cheatin' not get the curse. Those Miata guys were experts at finding $500 Miatas, and had 2 previously crushed cars. If you show up in a Class8 Tractor-Trailer with a double-height car carrier and NASA/SCCA branding all over it, you're immediately going to draw suspicion. Furthermore, if you show up with EXACTLY the same type of car you normally race in a spec class, you're going to triple the amount of eyes on you at a race. there are HORDES of hella' cheatin' Miatas and BMW E30s at every single one of these events. guess how many of those have won? Exactly TWO. Eyesore racing frankenmiata and the Dorifto Dogs E30. What am I pointing this out for?

You don't NEED to prep the most sinisterly underrated junker to win.
You don't NEED to prep the most obviously hella cheatin' Miata/E30 to win.
You don't NEED to fear the curse if you're Legit so long as you don't drive like a cock.

we've been to...4 events now? and I only know for SURE of ONE single curse vote. why? Well, I don't know, maybe they were intimidated by a 4,000lb car outbraking them into a turn?

The truth is, if you prep a car, and whoever shows up at your pit, you treat them like a new friend, your curse susceptibility is practically ZERO.

I fully endorse going to other people's pits too, admire THEIR hard work. most of the curse recipients have cars that either need THOROUGH documentation to get them any BS cred and/or simply didn't branch out and interact socially with other teams.

Just Keep in Mind that there's even been a race where "aw shucks, everyone's so nice! lets put the curse on Jay's Bus!" and none of the race competitors got their rides flattened by construction machinery or parted out by the masses.

Go in with a clear conscience and a fun attitude, and the only fear you'll have is how much car you have to tear through to fix whatever breaks.

You make valid points. But being from LA I am naturally an asshole (or at least thats what everyone tells me I'm supposed to be )

As far as the miata's... It's gonna be hard to throw a cheater Miata in when Jay Lamm is there. He knows Miata's through and through (even wrote a book about 'em).

[EyeMWing]

Originally Posted by Serj

then it went out and turned the Fastest lap of the day by like 5 SECONDS/Lap.

Gee, who would've thought that by taking the extra panel weight off a two-ton car with a gigantic beefcake of a motor would lower lap times

[Ezbok58a]

Originally Posted by Serj

then it went out and turned the Fastest lap of the day by like 5 SECONDS/Lap.

You're forgetting the fact that, that particular crown Vic had a Mustang GT engine and more importantly the 5spd manual out of the mustang as well...

That alone made the car super fast...(which is why I believe it got 'Peoples Curse' to begin with...hell the guy bought the car with a blown motor from the police auction and got a Mustang engine and trans package dirt cheap.)

So now you know the potential of the Crown Vic with a simple 5spd swap...

Something that's also being done to the Police Brutality Lincoln Mark VIII as we speak

[Punisher Bass]

Originally Posted by Ezbok58a

You're forgetting the fact that, that particular crown Vic had a Mustang GT engine and more importantly the 5spd manual out of the mustang as well...

That alone made the car super fast...(which is why I believe it got 'Peoples Curse' to begin with...hell the guy bought the car with a blown motor from the police auction and got a Mustang engine and trans package dirt cheap.)

So now you know the potential of the Crown Vic with a simple 5spd swap...

Something that's also being done to the Police Brutality Lincoln Mark VIII as we speak

I don't think that turned out to be true, I think the other teams were just speculating that some shenanigans were going on but didn't have proof. It might have been confirmed that the car was indeed powered by the stock 4.6 and 4spd auto.

[Ezbok58a]

Originally Posted by Punisher Bass

I don't think that turned out to be true, I think the other teams were just speculating that some shenanigans were going on but didn't have proof. It might have been confirmed that the car was indeed powered by the stock 4.6 and 4spd auto.

Trust me, the guy who built the car was on our forum. Stock 99-04 Mustang GT engine and 5spd transmission swapped in it.

Adding a 5spd alone wakes the lazy 4.6 up real good.

[EyeMWing]

Frankly, if I were going to run a Crown Vic (or related hunk of Ford iron) I'd do the same thing. There are jackass middle-of-nowhere sheriffs with the same swap done so it's not even an unheard-of thing on the damned highway.

Though if I can get ahold of a running Mustang engine and working transmission, that begs the question "Why the hell can't I just drive the Mustang?"

Originally Posted by Punisher Bass

I don't think that turned out to be true, I think the other teams were just speculating that some shenanigans were going on but didn't have proof.

Reason #322 to socialize and leave the hood open. It shows you're not hiding anything.

[nouseferaname90]

Originally Posted by EyeMWing

Though if I can get ahold of a running Mustang engine and working transmission, that begs the question "Why the hell can't I just drive the Mustang?"

Donor car may have been something like this

[Punisher Bass]

Originally Posted by Ezbok58a

Trust me, the guy who built the car was on our forum. Stock 99-04 Mustang GT engine and 5spd transmission swapped in it.

Adding a 5spd alone wakes the lazy 4.6 up real good.

Ahh, I remember jalopnik saying that wasn't the case.

Originally Posted by EyeMWing

Reason #322 to socialize and leave the hood open. It shows you're not hiding anything.

Unless you're hiding something in plain sight. It's one of the reasons why the judges are suspect of any small block chevy that enters since it could easily be a built 383 inside but look like a junkyard 305 on the outside.

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by Punisher Bass

Unless you're hiding something in plain sight. It's one of the reasons why the judges are suspect of any small block chevy that enters since it could easily be a built 383 inside but look like a junkyard 305 on the outside.

They'd never guess one was running a $10k 220hp cheater motor in a 318. Looks totally stock on the outside

Oh and don't think they can't do the same to 325's. Those BMW "small sixes" can be punched out to 3.2 liters with an e36 crank.