All New York Taxis To Go Hybrid By 2012

[I<3myV8]

http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9721916-7.html

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg dropped by the Today show Tuesday morning to talk about cleaning up his city. No, it wasn't time for a get-tough-on-crime talk. Instead, he wants to make the urban air a little less noxious, and maybe give the fight against global warming a little more street-level cred.

Hizzoner used the morning news-and-lighter-fare show to say that by 2012, all of the city's taxis would be hybrid vehicles. "There's an awful lot of taxicabs on the streets of New York City, obviously"--13,000 licensed yellow cabs, 90 percent of them Crown Victorias, according to the account in The New York Times--"so it makes a real big difference. These cars just sit there in traffic sometimes, belching fumes." (Just sometimes?)

"This"--he points to the Ford Escape hybrid that served as the backdrop for the Today segment--"does a lot less. It's a lot better for all of us."

The Escape was provided by Yahoo, which is donating 10 hybrids altogether. Along with the decals touting the Web portal and its green initiatives, the small SUV also sported energy-stingy compact fluorescent bulbs in the advertising light box on the roof.

New York is also working to get newer, cleaner technology into its fleet of buses--and maybe even garbage trucks someday. "Some things they just don't make yet, but we're trying to go in that direction," Bloomberg said on Today. There's also the matter of getting the taxi industry on board with Tuesday's announcement, but as the licensing and regulatory authority, the city certainly has its share of leverage.

So while there's no guarantee that your next ride will be any less hair-raising, pretty soon hailing a cab in midtown Manhattan could at least be a lot more eco-friendly.

This means that taxi drivers will have to buy hybrid cars if they want to work in New York. Which is probably the main reason people dislike this proposal. Although a lot of people approve of it.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by I<3myV8

This means that taxi drivers will have to buy hybrid cars if they want to work in New York. Which is probably the main reason people dislike this proposal. Although a lot of people approve of it.

Aren't the taxis owned by the taxi companies, not the drivers personally? I think it is a great idea. All public transport should be hybrid or on some sort of bio/hydrogen fuel.

[GM_IV]

Originally Posted by avanti

Aren't the taxis owned by the taxi companies, not the drivers personally?

It depends on the company, they may allow the driver to buy their own car or provide the fleet car. When I was down in New York in the summer the vast majority of the taxi van fleet were Toyota Siennas but I have seen the odd Honda Odessey and even a Ford Freestar.

[Banii]

Last time i was in NY (some months ago) the majority were fords - and especially old ford police cars.

(but you're talking about 7-seaters maybe?)

[GM_IV]

Originally Posted by Banii

Last time i was in NY (some months ago) the majority were fords - and especially old ford police cars.

(but you're talking about 7-seaters maybe?)

I was talking about the van fleet since I don't think any of the taxi cars there are anything but a Crown Victoria. Even in Toronto where taxis are definitely the driver's car the Crown Victoria is still the dominant car, Camry in a distant 2nd place.

[Banii]

my mistake, then

[Cobol74]

Right, that's it world saved. We can all breath a concerted sigh of relief.

[BlaRo]

On paper it's a great idea: making the millions of taxis running around NYC more fuel-efficient is a great proposal, and it's bound to improve the already smoggy environment.

But in reality, with maintenance and cash and practicality? Not so much.

[Blind_Io]

A couple things:
1- I don't think they can legally require that of private companies. As long as the cabs are street legal and in good repair the company can keep using them
2- Many cabs are owned by the drivers, not the companies
3- The current taxi standard is the fleet Crown Victoria. Given the number of miles driven by a typical taxi, the car has to put up with incredible abuse and seriously high miles, up to four times the average. Do we really think a hybrid is up to the challenge? What happens with those batteries that are supposed to last 10 years? I bet they start crapping out at about 3.

[Donington]

Nice idea, won't work for reasons mentioned above.

[chaos386]

Originally Posted by Blind_Io

3- The current taxi standard is the fleet Crown Victoria. Given the number of miles driven by a typical taxi, the car has to put up with incredible abuse and seriously high miles, up to four times the average. Do we really think a hybrid is up to the challenge? What happens with those batteries that are supposed to last 10 years? I bet they start crapping out at about 3.

And what, exactly, are you basing this conclusion on? I've not read anything that suggests hybrids can't cope with high mileage. I know you don't like the "smug" they produce, but that's no reason to think the batteries are going to crap out prematurely.

I think this is a great idea (ok, maybe not the forcing private companies to scrap their old cars part). Stop-and-go city traffic is one of the conditions where a hybrid actually makes a lot of sense.

[CyberMonkey]

On the other hand, this might be a huge boost for hybrid technology, providing funds to the carbuilders to improve their technology. Shame off course that always somebody has to be victim of it, in this case the taxi drivers and their companies. 5 years seems quite close though to replace those thousands of cars, or how long does the average taxi cab last?

[British_Rover]

Well we are talking 2012 here. That is five years away which is a fairly long time in todays fast paced automotive world. That is a fairly long time to start phasing in Hybrids. NYC traffic is probably only the second best situation for hybrids as far as fuel economy is concerned though.

There is plenty of stop and go which hybrids are good at but not much medium distance medium speed driving to help recharge the batteries. They will have to rely on the regenerative braking for most of the recharge.


What is the average lifespan of a NYC taxi anyway? I can't imagine it is much over five years for most taxis.

[SoxXpupPeT]

im fine by it for afew reasons 1) there will be alot more cop cars for sale then there usually are after the usual 5-6 years of on service duty. and 2) there all smaller and slower so when your in NYc driving you could easily overtake them

[Blind_Io]

Originally Posted by chaos386

And what, exactly, are you basing this conclusion on? I've not read anything that suggests hybrids can't cope with high mileage. I know you don't like the "smug" they produce, but that's no reason to think the batteries are going to crap out prematurely.

I think this is a great idea (ok, maybe not the forcing private companies to scrap their old cars part). Stop-and-go city traffic is one of the conditions where a hybrid actually makes a lot of sense.

Currently the batteries are expected to last about 10 years, like any battery they will stop holding a charge after being charged and discharged enough times - a high mileage car like a taxi will reach that charge/discharge limit sooner than a regular civilian car that is not being driven 24/7. Many cab companies have half as many cars as they do drivers, so there is a day driver and a night driver. The cars only make money when someone has hired them and they can't get hired sitting in the garage.

To answer your question, I based my statement on logic.

[zeoniks]

They should just get rid of the taxi cabs in New York City. They're just too big and too inefficient. They're all Crown-Vics. Big, unmovable, gas-guzzling yellow pieces of turd with four wheels.

[chaos386]

Originally Posted by Blind_Io

Currently the batteries are expected to last about 10 years, like any battery they will stop holding a charge after being charged and discharged enough times - a high mileage car like a taxi will reach that charge/discharge limit sooner than a regular civilian car that is not being driven 24/7. Many cab companies have half as many cars as they do drivers, so there is a day driver and a night driver. The cars only make money when someone has hired them and they can't get hired sitting in the garage.

To answer your question, I based my statement on logic.

The same applies to every part on a car.

[YF19pilot]

Originally Posted by zeoniks

They should just get rid of the taxi cabs in New York City. They're just too big and too inefficient. They're all Crown-Vics. Big, unmovable, gas-guzzling yellow pieces of turd with four wheels.

Crown Vics, especially the Fleet/Interceptor packages that they use for cabs are fucking tanks. They're probably the best suited car on the current market for the job they do. Granted, I can see the want to go with a more fuel effecient car (why not Volvo V70s?), but I'm not sure if the hybrid route is the way to go right away.

My only thing with the hybrids is what Blind Io said, with the batteries crapping out sooner (I believe the mileage estimates are around 80 to 100 thousand miles). Granted these cabs will probably pay for themselves sooner than a civilian model, and if they do go through Ford (escape) and not Toyota (prius), they'll probably get a cut-rate fleet price. Not to mention normal people wouldn't mind riding an escape over the prius.


But speaking of Toyota Siennas, if I go to New York, there's a specific one that I will be hunting for:

[Viper007Bond]

Originally Posted by Blind_Io

I don't think they can legally require that of private companies

Actually, they can. All taxi cabs have to be licensed and you can easily deny someone a license for not having the kind of car you want.

[Austere]

Wouldn't it be possible to retrofit the Crown Vic with some sort of specialty hybrid built just for the job? With 5 years up their sleeve it's not out of the question.
I can't see them using the Prius or even the Escape as NYC taxis...

I imagine something along the lines of the London cabs. ie something designed and built from day one to be a taxi and nothing else. With a hybrid engine.

But I do see some problems. Isn't the electric motor supposed to be at least partially recharged by the friction generated by braking from speed? Surely the average NYC cab wouldn't get much benefit from that what with it being stuck in fairly slow moving traffic most of the time.

And with the average taxi driver being know for 'thrashing it' and driving crazy it would probably spend most of its time on the petrol engine anyway...

Also there's the fact that hybrid technology is just a bunch of nonsense pseudo-science that makes a lot of bold yet very loose claims that it really doesn't live up to anyway and that every single person who buys a hybrid is a wanker who wants to appear to be "making a difference" without actually having to, you know 'do anything' or 'make any kind of sacrifice whatsoever'.