Another reason why buying a $30k Civic isn't the greatest idea

[zenkidori]

Originally Posted by jayhawk

The current KA engines just do not have the soul of the B16A, and the suspension on the current Civic is just...ordinary, not amazing and revolutionary like the Civics of old.

The KA is an engine offered by NISSAN(KA24), not Honda. If you're talking about the Honda K series of engines, like the K20, you should really check yourself and take a look at them, since they are PHENOMENAL compared to the older B series. There is no comparison. a K series swap into a an older chassis is by far a more potent combination than a B series swap.

the EP3 series was a huge disappointment, and probably the worst civic ever. but the current generation isn't too bad. probably the best one since the EG, but indeed heavier. IMO the Fit carries on the civic feel and tradition better than the new civics.

[Ottobon]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

The KA is an engine offered by NISSAN(KA24), not Honda. If you're talking about the Honda K series of engines, like the K20, you should really check yourself and take a look at them, since they are PHENOMENAL compared to the older B series. There is no comparison. a K series swap into a an older chassis is by far a more potent combination than a B series swap.

the EP3 series was a huge disappointment, and probably the worst civic ever. but the current generation isn't too bad. probably the best one since the EG, but indeed heavier. IMO the Fit carries on the civic feel and tradition better than the new civics.

i will admit i have seen the dyno sheets from 11,000 RPM K series, but at the same rate those cars had lump-somes of money invested in them. There are a few things that keep me from jumping on the Honda K series band wagon.

1. I have read incredible bullshit about the engine, such as the claims it can make 258whp with a intake and a exhaust, which is bullshit. I believe somebody did the math and it concluded that if such a claim was true then the K series would have better volumetric efficiency at given RPM then a F1 engine

2. I have had a friend who had driven the balls off various cars for years, primarily a old 5 series BMW (2.5L), he had it supercharged and done lots of other extensive work to it, it never so much as wavered. He then bought a RSX and went through 2 K20s due to massive engine failure. One time it starved itself for oil and the other time it lunched itself at high RPMs. In defense of my friend he invested lots of money into both engines, and had a reputable speed shop ("God Speed" or something, in Michigan) do all the work, the fact they both blew up was quite a surprise.

3. Even in a lighter car, i can't say that the K series is hugely better then the its 1.8 liter Toyota rival. I do believe its better, especially with all the extra after-market support, but so far as i can tell from actual experience its mostly just talk that separates Toyotas and Hondas offerings. Both engines are jerk like hell at 6000 RPMs (not at all good if your exiting a corner), and both engines lack anything that really makes them feel special, yes ive driven cars with both. I much prefer F series if i was going to follow honda, still a bit gutless under 6000, but it sounds miles meaner and i've heard the crankshaft geometry is far superior, whatever that mean.

[zenkidori]

K series swaps are defiantly expensive, but very swap I've seen into an older chassis has kicked ass. Some kid with a K20 powered EG hatch even won BMI touge america. K20 powered elises seem to be kicking serious ass as well.

[cdbob]

Holy crap that thing sure is gutted why not sell the remains and buy a volvo?

[bartboy9891]

Originally Posted by Ottobon

yeah if you put TVs all over the interior , I remember pricing up options on a GTi, they may not realistically sell for the sticker, but theres no real reason you need to make it a 30k car

I don't think it's completely unreasonable of me to want a decent sound system and the better seats. That brings the price up to nearly 27K right there. Sure if you skip the options the starting price isn't too bad.

[cdbob]

Originally Posted by bartboy9891

I don't think it's completely unreasonable of me to want a decent sound system and the better seats. That brings the price up to nearly 27K right there. Sure if you skip the options the starting price isn't too bad.

That is where you and I differ my friend

[bartboy9891]

Originally Posted by Ottobon

has anybody read a single review on the Mazda 3 besides me ?

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol...icle824022.ece

If you don't listen to me at least try and listen to JC

He drove a 1.6L model. I've been in the 2.3 and I liked it better than the Focus. Most (all as far as I know) of the reviews I've read say the Mazda 3 is a good car.

[bartboy9891]

Originally Posted by cdbob

That is where you and I differ my friend

Fine, I'm not saying you are required to want the same things I want. I'd probably take the base GTI if someone gave it to me and I probably would enjoy it. But if I was looking to buy the car, I'd want some more for my money. I could get a Mazda3 for less though, and I really like that car.

And to Ottobon: The Truth About Cars reviews are the among the most critical that I've ever read.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/reviews/mazda-mazda3/

Also I apologize for over-posting.

[andyhui01]

Originally Posted by Ottobon

1. I have read incredible bullshit about the engine, such as the claims it can make 258whp with a intake and a exhaust, which is bullshit. I believe somebody did the math and it concluded that if such a claim was true then the K series would have better volumetric efficiency at given RPM then a F1 engine

I much prefer F series if i was going to follow honda, still a bit gutless under 6000, but it sounds miles meaner and i've heard the crankshaft geometry is far superior, whatever that mean.

I've seen a B16A crank out 240whp (Have a video as well), and I've seen so many K series EP's or DC5's crank out more than 200+ whp (Its starting to get common).

F series? As in the F22A's? I have never seen anyone actually bother to do it up considering aftermarket support isn't that great and it isn't anything special. In terms of the best overall Honda Engine (pre 00's), I'll have to give it to the H22A's... you get the torque because of the bigger capacity but still get the screaming revs like a B series.

[Hidden_Hunter]

B series engines are fun little engine, power and torque are relatively low compared to other engines but the way they love to rev is fun.

[andyhui01]

^Do you have a B18? As in the Dohc vtec version?

[Hidden_Hunter]

Originally Posted by andyhui01

^Do you have a B18? As in the Dohc vtec version?

no vtec

[Shawn]

^ No VTEC on a '95 Integra? That's crazy... my RSX had iVTEC. It kicked in pretty often, y0!

[andyhui01]

^Just saw it on Hidden_Hunter's sig that it is a GSi, so no VTEC, but still 1.8 yea? Whats the engine code on it?

As much as this makes me sound like a Ricer, when VTEC kicks in y0!... it feels pretty damn nice (Esp the old ones where they just kick in at 5.2k RPM... its fun hearing the sound transition... my gf has a H22A prelude and I kick the vtec in y0! almost everytime I drive the car, I always just bring the car into vtec range just to feel the difference, then release the throttle )

[Shawn]

^ Yeah, it's definitely a noticeable power boost once you hit about 4,500rpm. At least that's when it kicked in y0! on the RSX's K20A engine.

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

The KA is an engine offered by NISSAN(KA24), not Honda. If you're talking about the Honda K series of engines, like the K20, you should really check yourself and take a look at them, since they are PHENOMENAL compared to the older B series. There is no comparison. a K series swap into a an older chassis is by far a more potent combination than a B series swap.

The part about the K20's that raised an eye-brow for me was when engine shops started reporting that the stock flow of a K20a2 head was better than even a race ported B series (I can't recall the preferred one the builders like to grind on).

Originally Posted by Ottobon

i will admit i have seen the dyno sheets from 11,000 RPM K series, but at the same rate those cars had lump-somes of money invested in them. There are a few things that keep me from jumping on the Honda K series band wagon.

1. I have read incredible bullshit about the engine, such as the claims it can make 258whp with a intake and a exhaust, which is bullshit. I believe somebody did the math and it concluded that if such a claim was true then the K series would have better volumetric efficiency at given RPM then a F1 engine

I don't hang out on Honda boards so I haven't heard that but... I've seen magazine articles on the combo's and the 260hp (I think wheel hp) comes from using a K24 bottom end with a K20a2 head, and lots of goodies.

2. I have had a friend who had driven the balls off various cars for years, primarily a old 5 series BMW (2.5L), he had it supercharged and done lots of other extensive work to it, it never so much as wavered. He then bought a RSX and went through 2 K20s due to massive engine failure. One time it starved itself for oil and the other time it lunched itself at high RPMs. In defense of my friend he invested lots of money into both engines, and had a reputable speed shop ("God Speed" or something, in Michigan) do all the work, the fact they both blew up was quite a surprise.

When you have the money to invest in a BMW engine, they are hard power plants to beat when built up. Obviously every engine has it's quirks, and perhaps he with the Honda's he just didn't know enough about them compared to the "old 5 series engine"?

If I ever wanted to do a reliable, fairly fun to drive daily driver, I'd seriously consider a Honda with a well worked over K series under the hood.

[Quiky]

[InfernalVortex]

Im not sure if you guys actually realize it or not, but they only stole all the parts that visually distinguish it as a Mugen Si. Some poor guy out there is going to buy a Civic with a bunch of Mugen/Si badges and get ripped off.

This is directed mostly toward the ricer comment about leaving hte good stuff. Why bother with the good stuff when you can make people think you're cheap base model Civic has the good stuff?

[andyhui01]

^someone would have to be really really stupid to fall for that, they didn't steal the exhaust, suspension, brakes, I think they stole 1 seat and I'm sure there are other engine mods like the Mugen Airbox too.

[jayhawk]

Originally Posted by andyhui01

I somehow have a feeling that all the negative stuff is just because its a Civic (Which for some reason, any car with a Civic badge is classified Rice), if this was done to a Mazdaspeed 2.3l 3 (not the MPS) or something like an Astra, you'll probably go ZOMG! WHY? It's such a great car

For me, no. If it was a 1998 Civic Type R going for that much, I would buy it without blinking. As I said before, the new generation Civic's just do not...move me. And yes, I know you own one, but I never mince words with my friends.