Automotive congestion charging in the US - finally a reality?

[edkwon]

Looks like NYC's mayor Bloomberg is pushing for the institution of congestion pricing in the city starting spring 2008

http://www.nysun.com/article/68142

Congestion pricing is beginning to feel a bit like Dr. Evil's "laser" in "Austin Powers" — we know it's there, but we're not exactly sure what it does.

The good news for Mayor Bloomberg is that he's likely to win some sort of "congestion pricing" plan by the spring now that the Assembly speaker, Sheldon Silver, is on board with developing a plan to reduce Manhattan traffic by charging a fee to drivers. This is noteworthy because Mr. Silver has played the recurring role of obstructionist to some of Mr. Bloomberg's boldest ideas during the past six years.

We won't know what congestion pricing really means until much closer to the March 31 deadline for final approval from the City Council and state Legislature. We do know there's no chance the ultimate agreement will look much like the original proposal for using hundreds of cameras to charge $8 a car for all cars below 86th Street — with a rebate for any tolls drivers paid to enter Manhattan.

That initial idea actually gives a free ride to drivers who enter Manhattan via the Triborough Bridge, Midtown Tunnel or Battery Tunnel (already exactly $8 round-trip with E-Z Pass) and a big discount to New Jersey drivers (who pay $5 round-trip) with E-Z Pass. The big losers under the original plan are those drivers from Westchester, Brooklyn and Queens who currently travel free on bridges.

If this works out i wonder how long it'll be before other major cities/congested areas (Atlanta, Los Angeles, etc) will follow suit. THey have traffic problems that aren't going away, why not make $$ off of it (from a city govt perspective).

[Blind_Io]

San Francisco has been talking about it for the last year or so.

[starfox07]

Sure glad I dont live in the city!

[avanti]

They will start with it in Milan after new-years, I can't wait, traffic is terrible!! Scooters ftw!!

[devil500]

Yeah great for my dad who's gotta work in there doing some construction...I just hope the system is not as f*cked up as Londons :p

[jayhawk]

I can see why London has problems, because it is very old city, but I cannot see why any city built after 1800 would have this congestion charge.

Thankfully the large city I live near, Chicago, is all grided.

[poptya]

the stupid thing about congestion charges are they don't actually fix anything. If people are driving in the first place, they obviously need to be somewhere, so they aren't going to argue having to pay a couple bucks to do it. So JUST as many cars will be on the road as before, but people will be losing money while the government gives it to bums.

[devil500]

Originally Posted by jayhawk

I can see why London has problems, because it is very old city, but I cannot see why any city built after 1800 would have this congestion charge.

New York has been going through strange times a lot of road work done at peak hours it kills transportation..Also mass transit across the city is just awful late bus to ones that just don't work no a/c or broken windows...I agree that a charge should be implemented, but fix mass transit then you'll fix the congestion..

[thedguy]

I don't quite understand how congestion charging is supposed to help. If you have to be at work at 8am along with everyone else... charging people ain't going to do a damn thing but extort money out of them for working where the work is.

If they want to alleviate traffic why not encourage the companies to stagger hours a bit, those who have jobs that have no need for them to come in to the office, tele-commute.

With modern tele-communications I honestly don't see why companies don't start moving away from the cramped, expensive metro areas like new york, LA, london etc... and start heading further out into the abyss that is the suburbs or in the case of the US, the midwest.

[Ottobon]

Originally Posted by poptya

the stupid thing about congestion charges are they don't actually fix anything. If people are driving in the first place, they obviously need to be somewhere, so they aren't going to argue having to pay a couple bucks to do it. So JUST as many cars will be on the road as before, but people will be losing money while the government gives it to bums.

Exactly why i think serial killers should make better use of themselves and start targeting political idiocy instead of just random people coming home from the super-market.


One question i do have is if motorcycles are exempt, i do think that in the worst of scenarios getting people in smaller transport is better then just banning/taxing personal transport all together. Look at Saigon!

[zeoniks]

You know what they should do? Fix the transit system in New York City and get rid of cabs. What causes most traffic jams is commercial vehicles but that can't be helped. They should really just get rid of the cabs.

[Indiana Jones]

NY is a traffic mess, but somehow it's always flowing. Very few times does it really grind to a halt for a long while. So I agree, let's work on the public transit. I hate public transport, but it make total sense in NY.

[efoolution]

Originally Posted by poptya

the stupid thing about congestion charges are they don't actually fix anything. If people are driving in the first place, they obviously need to be somewhere, so they aren't going to argue having to pay a couple bucks to do it.[...]

... the Goal is not to keep People from going somewhere they need to be, the Goal is to let them think about not taking their Cars with them. In a City like London or NY you don´t really need to go by Car and clogg up the Roads with everybody else. There are alternatives but if you still insist on clogging up the roads, please pay for ruining the city for the People who live there. And let´s face it ... if you aren´t handicapped ... not using Puplic Transport to get into a Downtown area like of London or Manhattan, that´s just lazyness.

I have been to London earlier this Year and Traffic was horrible ... but in the CC Zone it seemed a lot better than some Years earlier and in the Rest of Town. Cars were actually moving ... wich seemed like a big improvemt for the Motorists.

I like Cars and I love driving them ... but I also live Downtown in a medium sized City (300k) and especially now before Christmas the roads are full. Full of jams, Noise, stink ... If I was at Home now and stepped outside I´d be entrering a world of stationary Traffic and Horn-noises. If they´d introduce CC here, I´d be very happy. I´d pay mine with a smile on my Face and then enjoy the (hopefully) less-clogged roads. It´s easy for people to dismiss CC if they aren´t really bothered with traffic where they live and just stand in it ... but think of the People who live there, People who try to run a buisness there. If you´d change your Perspective, you´ll see why CC isn´t such a bad thing ...

[avanti]

^^ Very well put! I think it is very easy to dismiss this as something stupid if you don't live in a place where it is a problem.

Here in the city of Milan there is 1.3 million inhabitants, the population of the Milan metropolitan area is over 7.4 million! With public transport (tram/bus) or car it takes me about 1 our to get to work, with a scooter 15 minutes. That is only because of the enormous amount of cars in the city center, if the CC can make some of them leave their car, and I know it will, if will make the public transport system flow much better!

I mean what is the joy of sitting stuck in trafic moving 2km/h when you could sit on the tram and read the paper...?

[awdrifter]

It'll just make the cost of living higher, there's no benefit. But I guess the gov't will try to take more of your money any ways they can.

[MattD1zzl3]

Originally Posted by efoolution

... the Goal is not to keep People from going somewhere they need to be, the Goal is to let them think about not taking their Cars with them. In a City like London or NY you don´t really need to go by Car and clogg up the Roads with everybody else. There are alternatives but if you still insist on clogging up the roads, please pay for ruining the city for the People who live there. And let´s face it ... if you aren´t handicapped ... not using Puplic Transport to get into a Downtown area like of London or Manhattan, that´s just lazyness.

Have you ever BEEN to america? Public transportation is very undesirable here. Confusing and dirty. I'd just have to find a new job in a new location rather then give my car up.

[tigger]

Originally Posted by poptya

the stupid thing about congestion charges are they don't actually fix anything.

Generally I'd have to agree. The few people I know in New York don't even own cars, and they've told me that most people already try to avoid driving when possible. I don't live there, and haven't been in a long time, but from the sound of things I don't think it would help matters. It would only serve to raise tax revenues, so of course the city will be all over it.

Originally Posted by MattD1zzl3

Have you ever BEEN to america? Public transportation is very undesirable here. Confusing and dirty. I'd just have to find a new job in a new location rather then give my car up.

It doesn't sound like NY has a good system, but the system in my hometown, Kansas City was pretty good. Clean buses, cheap fares, and they go all over the place. It's not really all that complicated either. I prefer driving, (or even better; riding my Yamaha), but you can't argue with going across town for a few quarters.

[otispunkmeyer]

best laugh is conjestion charging in london doesnt even work and you dont actually get taxed for causing conjestion... you just get taxed for having a nice car.

soon its going to be

120g CO2 /km and under = free to get in
220 and over = £25 a day
everything else £8 a day

and dont think that you only pay for driving... no, even if your car sits in a car park all day.... you get charged.

essentially you are getting taxed for just owning a car.

joke.

[edkwon]

Originally Posted by otispunkmeyer

best laugh is conjestion charging in london doesnt even work and you dont actually get taxed for causing conjestion... you just get taxed for having a nice car.

essentially you are getting taxed for just owning a car.

joke.

i dont have a problem with getting taxed for having a nice car. first of all, at least in this country:

1. none of us have the RIGHT to personal transportation, its a privilege that were given and can be revoked if used irresponsibly

2. now that we've established the absence of constitutionally backed right, theres even less of a right to own a nice car, when all one really needs is basic personal transportation (aka cheap commuter car)

if theres an additional premium to pay for having a higher end sporrts car/luxury car, i'll be willing to pay it. and maybe it'll keep certain douchebags from owning them.

[InfernalVortex]

Originally Posted by edkwon

i dont have a problem with getting taxed for having a nice car. first of all, at least in this country:

1. none of us have the RIGHT to personal transportation, its a privilege that were given and can be revoked if used irresponsibly

2. now that we've established the absence of constitutionally backed right, theres even less of a right to own a nice car, when all one really needs is basic personal transportation (aka cheap commuter car)

if theres an additional premium to pay for having a higher end sporrts car/luxury car, i'll be willing to pay it. and maybe it'll keep certain douchebags from owning them.

We have a right to whatever personal property we can legally purchase. Who are you to say that I dont? Go live in communist China if you feel that way. The constitution doesn't say you have a right to a personal computer either, but that doesn't mean that you don't.

You havea right to private property.

To those living in these congested areas, you have the right to move somewhere where it's not so congested, businesses have the right to relocate also. These so-called problems are all very easily handled without government intervention. The problem is that everyone thinks the government shoudl take care of them and solve all their problems.

Well the government cannot do that. They will just create more problems. It will increase the cost of living and that tax money will be squandered away in a buearocratic clusterf***. There will be less people who can afford the cars they need to survive everyday and businesses wont get the same amount of traffic through their storefronts.

If you want to live in a country where the government panders to your every need, there are plenty of those around the world. The fact that under the constitution America shouldn't be that way is one of the things that IMO makes it so great. But because of people who want to have their government give them a cake and let them eat it too, America is now a shadow of its former self. The problem is that you're paying the government for that cake, and you can make a better one if you paid for it yourself. But the precedent of the government automatically taking your money to make a mediocre cake has been set, next thing you know it will be making your pies too.