Automotive sociolgy: characteristics based on country of origin

[Danny Tran]

Been reading this old article by James May:

"Forget brand awareness. It's the country of origin that counts nowadays

I suspect the days of true and fundamental differentiation between the big marques are largely over. In the olden days a Jaguar was very different from a Citroën because the two cars represented vastly different philosophies on how a car should be made, and these philosophies reflected the conceits of just a few men; sometimes only one."

(...)

...despite the EU constitution and a lot of waffle about the global village, national characteristics in car-making are still easy to identify. Think country of origin rather than brand, and we start to get somewhere:


Germans

"They're good, but I remain alarmed by the German obsession with performance and handling. German cars are becoming a bit too wide-boy for my tastes."


British

"The nominally British motor industry has me a bit worried as well. I've had the new Range Rover Sport for the weekend and there's a lot I like about it. But Sport? What a fatuous notion.

I've been out in the Aston DB9 Convertible too, and I'm afraid it leaves me cold. It just doesn't seem very Aston-like; it feels more like the Aston edition of some universally accepted idea of what a posh, high-powered GT should be. It's a good car, but not one that keeps me awake. Likewise the Bentley Continental GT. British cars are in danger of becoming a bit phoney."


Japanese

The Japanese, though omnipotent in quality and reliability, are just a bit boring...


French

"I've long admired their small Renaults and Peugeots, but in the end their cars are just too left-wing for my liking."


American

"... America is still largely irrelevant."


Italians

"So where does the misty-eyed car enthusiast go for magic these days?

Italy. The Italian car, once so beloved by us, but for too long a rather sorry apology by the nation that produces it, is resurgent. The three cars I've most enjoyed in the past year have been Italian: the Fiat Panda, the Maserati Quattroporte and the Ferrari F430 Spider. I can come up with sound reasons for approving of them: the Panda is unpretentiously utilitarian and all the more charming for its honesty; the Maserati is a seductive blend of performance and restrained good taste that Mercedes can currently only dream of; the F430 is so intoxicating that I had to be manhandled back onto the airport bus at the end of a day driving around Emilia Romano. But it's more than that."

Conclusion

The Italian motor industry seems to carry remarkably little in the way of extraneous baggage. An Italian car really does come across as just a car; not as a lifestyle statement, an exercise in branding, a fashion accessory or an expression of national fervour.

The whole article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/.../04/mmay04.xml


Discuss!

[whoster]

unfortunately for the notion of a british car,

the only British car company that exists...wait no, they DON'T exist!

Rolls Royce and Mini are children of BMW
Bentley is owned by VW
Lotus is owned by Perodua which was bought by VW
Aston Martin is owned by Ford, like Land Rover and Jaguar
Rover---ceased to exist,


which leaves us with the Germans, the Americans, and the Japanese. and the off Koreans and their Hyundais and Kias. and the uber-ugly Ssangyongs.

and does the rest of the world really care about French cars?

[ryosuke]

Originally Posted by whoster

unfortunately for the notion of a british car,

the only British car company that exists...wait no, they DON'T exist!

Rolls Royce and Mini are children of BMW
Bentley is owned by VW
Lotus is owned by Perodua which was bought by VW
Aston Martin is owned by Ford, like Land Rover and Jaguar
Rover---ceased to exist,


which leaves us with the Germans, the Americans, and the Japanese. and the off Koreans and their Hyundais and Kias. and the uber-ugly Ssangyongs.

and does the rest of the world really care about French cars?

according to that logic daimler-chrysler is an arab company.

[Leonidae]

Originally Posted by ryosuke

according to that logic daimler-chrysler is an arab company.

explains why they keep coming back for maintenace and quality issues.

[Danny Tran]

I want to discuss cheap and cheerful cars. It’s quite obvious Italian and Dutch supercars are out of everybody’s league.

James May's article may be an accurate portrayal of what's going on in Europe, but what about in America?

The north american car enthusiast has it quite hard, especially now that we know from Top Gear and all the wonderful machines we can only get a glimpse of.

American cars are indeed to me quite are irrelevant. Like most north americans here know, a part from obvious things like the Ford GT and Dodge Viper, most of them are inefficient, cheap and cheaply made, revolting, utilitarian machines. A part from the two supercars mentioned above, no passion whatsoever goes into the making process. Pontiac Solstice and Saturn roadster though beautiful are cheaply made and have terrible interior design and boot space.

Also, like James has mentioned "car manufacturers (but especially Detroit manufacturers) are shamelessly aping their heritage" by coming out with retro replicas of the Mustang, Camaro and Challenger.

Not only that, but even foreign manufactures make cars for the very same american market, which causes us to have, unlike in Europe, ugly Honda Civics...




horrible Honda Accords


old-man Toyota Camries




"So where does the misty-eyed car enthusiast go for magic these days?"

Italy? I think not. Until be get the Alfa Romeo Brera in 2011, the cheapest Italian car will be the Maserati coupé. The only car remotely close to a cheap Italian car would be a cross breed of Fiat and Suzuki called the SX-4.



Germany? *Interesting* BMWs (M3, M5 and 6 series), Audis (RS4) and Mercedes AMGs are quite expensive. In fact, the cheapest fun german car is the GTI and even that costs as much as an Impreza turbo (WRX).

Living in Canada, to me the only interesting affordable cars I can think of are all Japanese imports:

Subaru Impreza WRX, easily modified, fun in the snow, wagons (estates) look especially unsuspecting



Honda S2000, fizzy engine


Mazda RX-8 and MX-5, perfect handling


Infiniti G35 saloon, beautiful, nice V6



Id rather drive any of these that a low-end Mercedes C-class, BMW 3 series or Audi 2.0T.

[jetsetter]

American cars are indeed to me quite are irrelevant. Like most north americans here know, a part from obvious things like the Ford GT and Dodge Viper, most of them are inefficient, cheap and cheaply made, revolting, utilitarian machines. A part from the two supercars mentioned above, no passion whatsoever goes into the making process. Pontiac Solstice and Saturn roadster though beautiful are cheaply made and have terrible interior design and boot space.

I could poke quite a few holes in that conclusion but I won't. Lets just hope the rest of you understand what I am getting at. As for the Camaro, Challenger, and Mustang....... The Camaro was in production until not that long ago and the Mustang has never died. Sure, they may take some slight cues from the past in their exterior design but put them next to the 60s version and they look quite different, especially the Camaro.

[kaBOOMn]

As a Italian car junkie (Alfa Romeo Owner) I agree with him 100%

As for Japanese cars, they are boring, and yes I live in a place where high performance jap-o-boxes are everywhere (you name it, its here....nice import rules!) I think the main problem is the lack of focus. Their motors sound woeful, their have the soul and drama of a Mc Donalds meal and they just totally miss the point. Yes I quite like a few Japanese motors, esp the Nissan RB in my Holden (factory fitment!) but they are.......empty! The Japanese cars try to do too much and end up missing the point.

The only japanese cars that miss that trend are the little "kei" cars, however only the hi-tech versions. The Nissan March Superturbo and the Mira TRX are two examples here. They are the quintessential Japanese car, tiny and loaded with technology. Like a Casio wrist watch!

[No Boss]

Nice read....

[NAIDANAC A]

Seriously...you do not need trunk space in a Sky/Solstice...and there is enough for golf bag...I do not understand why everyone complains.

[chaos386]

Originally Posted by ryosuke

according to that logic daimler-chrysler is an arab company.

Wait, what?

[BlaRo]

Oh God, not this again. Ok, we get it, all American cars are the spawn of Satan and we shall bow to our German/Japanese overlords. What's the point of this thread?

[bartboy9891]

Originally Posted by NAIDANAC A

Seriously...you do not need trunk space in a Sky/Solstice...and there is enough for golf bag...I do not understand why everyone complains.

you can fit a golf bag in the trunk?? You've got a Sky, so i cant really argue with you. But ive seen the "trunk" of a solstice and you can fit maybe a computer keyboard or something of that size. They claim its got 4 cubic ft (with roof up and half that with roof down) but it doesnt even look like its usable space

[Danny Tran]

Have you ever seen the interior of a Chevrolet Cobalt or a Chevrolet Impala?

It may be just as equal looking as a BMW 3 series' (boring) but my GOD it feels cheap!

Though the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn's equivalent may be interesting and out of the ordinary designs, but in comparison to my friend's Japan-made Honda Fit, I can feel a HUGE diffrence in interior plastics quality.

Bottom line, none of them floats my boat.

The good thing about American cars (non supercar) is they are cheaply priced.

[Narcolepsy]

<sigh> yes - we've been over the American car business. Our cars mostly aren't that good - fine. But they are cheap to buy and run, and that in the equation makes them worthwhile (depending on currency and import regs)

Also I like the US Civic, and I don't find japanese cars boring. Is an Evo boring?

[|ntegr4L]

Originally Posted by Danny Tran

Been reading this old article by James May:

"Forget brand awareness. It's the country of origin that counts nowadays

Italians

"So where does the misty-eyed car enthusiast go for magic these days?

Italy. The Italian car, once so beloved by us, but for too long a rather sorry apology by the nation that produces it, is resurgent. The three cars I've most enjoyed in the past year have been Italian: the Fiat Panda, the Maserati Quattroporte and the Ferrari F430 Spider. I can come up with sound reasons for approving of them: the Panda is unpretentiously utilitarian and all the more charming for its honesty; the Maserati is a seductive blend of performance and restrained good taste that Mercedes can currently only dream of; the F430 is so intoxicating that I had to be manhandled back onto the airport bus at the end of a day driving around Emilia Romano. But it's more than that."

Conclusion

The Italian motor industry seems to carry remarkably little in the way of extraneous baggage. An Italian car really does come across as just a car; not as a lifestyle statement, an exercise in branding, a fashion accessory or an expression of national fervour.

[MPowered]

Originally Posted by Danny Tran

Conclusion

The Italian motor industry seems to carry remarkably little in the way of extraneous baggage. An Italian car really does come across as just a car; not as a lifestyle statement, an exercise in branding, a fashion accessory or an expression of national fervour.

My general understanding of Italian cars is that they're all made with passion...reflective of the Italian population in general. As Clarkson put it, they're obsessed with fashion and design, so I don't see how their cars would be any different. One look at a Ferrari, Maserati, or an Alfa 8c, and you can tell that they are quite the lifestyle statement. Plus, as our favorite auto exec Luca has stated, Ferrari will always be headed up by an Italian. If that's not national pride, I don't know what is.

American car companies are finally starting to realize they need to improve their cars and they're starting to do so...at least GM is. And the last time I checked, I thought the Solstice/Sky is just a rebadged Opel GT.

[NAIDANAC A]

Originally Posted by bartboy9891

you can fit a golf bag in the trunk?? You've got a Sky, so i cant really argue with you. But ive seen the "trunk" of a solstice and you can fit maybe a computer keyboard or something of that size. They claim its got 4 cubic ft (with roof up and half that with roof down) but it doesnt even look like its usable space

We can get a set in even with the roof down.

[un-dee]

Originally Posted by BlaRo

Oh God, not this again. Ok, we get it, all American cars are the spawn of Satan and we shall bow to our German/Japanese overlords. What's the point of this thread?

You could at least read the whole first post, whiner.

[jetsetter]

And the last time I checked, I thought the Solstice/Sky is just a rebadged Opel GT.

It is the other way around.

[BlaRo]

Originally Posted by un-dee