Billy Ford killed the S197 IRS

argatoga · June 23rd, 2009, 2:06 AM

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/22/r...t-rear-suspen/

Quote:

It seems that any discussion about a modern Ford Mustang inevitably turns into a debate about its solid rear axle. While Ford has done an incredible job of optimizing the pony car's suspension, many still find it unacceptable that such an antiquated technology is used on a modern day performance car. Motor Trend boss Angus MacKenzie, however, says that the S197 Mustang platform almost received an independent rear suspension a while back – and for a lot less than you might think.

According to MacKenzie, the 2005 Mustang was set to get an independent suspension shared with the BA-series Falcon sedan built in Australia. Even when it was decided that the two cars would use different platforms, Ford designers set about designing an independent suspension specific to the Mustang. So why did it still end up with a solid rear axle? According to MacKenzie, product development executive Phil Martens convinced Bill Ford Jr. that they could save $100 per car if they dropped the IRS and went with the solid axle. For all of you non drag-racing types that wish the Mustang had an independently suspended rear, this news probably makes you sick to the stomach.

But wait... there's more! MacKenzie's sources say that the cost of sorting out the current Mustang's suspension actually cost $98 more per car than the IRS that could have gone in the car. Like Angus, we love the current Mustang but have to wonder if it could have been that much better.

Explains why the chassis was designed to accommodate an IRS.

Spectre · June 23rd, 2009, 2:11 AM

Industrial levels of irony here.

British_Rover · June 23rd, 2009, 2:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectre

Industrial levels of irony here.

And a great reason why Bill Ford is not the CEO anymore.

Hey at least he realized he was in over his head.

argatoga · June 23rd, 2009, 2:15 AM

For reference we are talking about this genius:

http://pic.phyrefile.com/a/ar/argatoga/2009/06/22/idiot.jpg

In his defense he was at least smart enough to hire Mulally to replace him.

Spectre · June 23rd, 2009, 2:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British_Rover

And a great reason why Bill Ford is not the CEO anymore.

Hey at least he realized he was in over his head.

Yeah, and I'm not sure that he can get enough credit for realizing that and finding a capable successor. You know as well as I do that US business schools don't teach that.

argatoga · June 23rd, 2009, 2:23 AM

Well US business schools are all about "hit and run". Kill R&D, bring up the stock price, and leave a hero. Let the poor schmuck who replaces you suffer the long term sabotage.

Hidden_Hunter · June 23rd, 2009, 2:42 AM

There's some interesting documents around on the rear suspension from the falcon, afaik they had to do some interesting things to get it to package well

NecroJoe · June 23rd, 2009, 2:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by argatoga

edited:He looks like the love child if the host of Double-Dare mated with Troy Aikman.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_fw7iF68JR8k/SC6Ypf9V3cI/AAAAAAAAQso/FpC8sTutBDA/s400/old-school-nickelodeon_361_1.jpg

+

http://images.smarter.com/blogs/troyaikman.jpg

=

jetsetter · June 23rd, 2009, 3:00 AM

One does have to wonder if IRS would have increased sales dramatically. I think not.

Rokovak · June 23rd, 2009, 3:12 AM

I read somewhere years ago that ditching the IRS saved about $70 million smackers in total development costs.

bartboy9891 · June 23rd, 2009, 3:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetsetter

One does have to wonder if IRS would have increased sales dramatically. I think not.

They would sell regardless. But they're working with an arguably inferior design right now and there's always room for improvement.

starfox07 · June 23rd, 2009, 5:40 AM

Couldn't you offset that buy just charging $100 more for each car? Most consumers would not even notice. images/smilies/dunno.gif

GRtak · June 23rd, 2009, 7:05 AM

Well that sounds like the William Clay Ford jr. that I know and despise. IRS could have been an option(at worse) and should have been to satisfy all BUYERS.

Arctor · June 23rd, 2009, 7:31 AM

Worst part is they spend a lot more development money and time trying to make an archaic technology work, when they would have actually saved a ton of money by devrlopng suspensions for multiple cars at once. Pity.

argatoga · June 23rd, 2009, 7:42 AM

The best thing they could do is combine the Mustang and Falcon platforms. It would save them having to develop two fairly similar cars.

Hidden_Hunter · June 23rd, 2009, 7:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by argatoga

The best thing they could do is combine the Mustang and Falcon platforms. It would save them having to develop two fairly similar cars.

We don't want the falcon gimped images/smilies/sad.gif

argatoga · June 23rd, 2009, 7:57 AM

I doubt there would be much of an issue. The Falcon needs to keep up with American Leyland's best efforts down there. Ford would just need to make it a bit smaller for the Mustang. Hell I could see Ford selling the Mustang down there as a their equivalent to the Monaro.

nsx_23 · June 23rd, 2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by argatoga

I doubt there would be much of an issue. The Falcon needs to keep up with American Leyland's best efforts down there. Ford would just need to make it a bit smaller for the Mustang. Hell I could see Ford selling the Mustang down there as a their equivalent to the Monaro.

I wish they sold the Mustang down here as an official model. I've seen quiet a few imported GT500s, and they look awesome in person.

Rowdie · June 23rd, 2009, 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetsetter

One does have to wonder if IRS would have increased sales dramatically. I think not.

I can't say I definitely would have bought one, but the odds would have been very good.

Quote:

For all of you non drag-racing types that wish the Mustang had an independently suspended rear, this news probably makes you sick to the stomach.

^^^ that's me.

Rowdie · June 23rd, 2009, 6:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hidden_Hunter

We don't want the falcon gimped images/smilies/sad.gif

Guess I'll go google Ford Falcon now... probably needs a date in there as well.

....

Nice. Not sure where the "gimped" take comes from?? From my vantage point I'm thinking I don't want a big fat mustang. How is losing two doors and some big time lbs gimping a car?

Mostly I'm wondering why the US doesn't have that car. What do we get from ford in so far as performance sedans? Nothing? A taurus SHO? No v8.

Maybe that's too many models but it seems like it would slot nicely between the Focus and Taurus. Seems like something they could use to go after the 5 series.

June 23rd, 2009, 2:11 AM	#2
Spectre Joined: Feb 1st, 2007 Last Online: 5:07 AM Location: Dallas, Texas Age: 33 Posts: 10,397 Car: 87 XJ6, 95 XJR, 90 WD21, 86 CB700SC, 98 PC800 Rep Power: 344	Industrial levels of irony here. __________________ Enough is enough. We are not here to subsidize your clueless business plans or reward your failures. 1986 Honda Nighthawk 700S (project, light restoration in progress) 1987 Jaguar XJ6 Series III Vanden Plas (modified) 1990 Nissan (WD21) Pathfinder SE 4x4 (little red offroad commuter box) 1995 Jaguar (X300) XJR 1998 Honda Pacific Coast PC800 (two-wheeled pickup truck/utility bike)

June 23rd, 2009, 2:15 AM	#4
argatoga Can't Start His Wank Joined: Oct 4th, 2005 Last Online: 7:26 AM Location: Washington State, USA Age: 26 Posts: 6,786 Car: '95 Jaguar XJ6, '78 MG Midget, '78 Honda CB400t Rep Power: 370	For reference we are talking about this genius: In his defense he was at least smart enough to hire Mulally to replace him. __________________ "If you think about it breast implants aren't much different than braces. Their main purpose is to improve one's appearance, at least that's how it was in my case." - KaJun "Anyway, I'm off to eat my dick" - Austere

June 23rd, 2009, 2:23 AM	#6
argatoga Can't Start His Wank Joined: Oct 4th, 2005 Last Online: 7:26 AM Location: Washington State, USA Age: 26 Posts: 6,786 Car: '95 Jaguar XJ6, '78 MG Midget, '78 Honda CB400t Rep Power: 370	Well US business schools are all about "hit and run". Kill R&D, bring up the stock price, and leave a hero. Let the poor schmuck who replaces you suffer the long term sabotage. __________________ "If you think about it breast implants aren't much different than braces. Their main purpose is to improve one's appearance, at least that's how it was in my case." - KaJun "Anyway, I'm off to eat my dick" - Austere

June 23rd, 2009, 2:42 AM	#7
Hidden_Hunter D: Joined: Oct 7th, 2006 Last Online: 7:05 AM Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 21 Posts: 6,241 Car: '08 Honda Accord Euro Rep Power: 122	There's some interesting documents around on the rear suspension from the falcon, afaik they had to do some interesting things to get it to package well __________________ My car is dark grey not black!

June 23rd, 2009, 3:00 AM	#9
jetsetter Joined: Dec 11th, 2005 Last Online: 4:46 AM Location: Most Serene Republic of California Posts: 6,165 Car: 1992 Toyota Pickup Rep Power: 111	One does have to wonder if IRS would have increased sales dramatically. I think not. __________________ "I saw myself founding a new religion, marching into Asia riding an elephant, a turban on my head and in my hands the new Koran I would have written to suit my needs." - Napoléon Bonaparte

June 23rd, 2009, 3:12 AM	#10
Rokovak Joined: Mar 16th, 2008 Last Online: March 16th, 2010 Location: 38°43'13.19"S, 77°31'47.87"E Posts: 669 Car: 2002 A4 Quattro Rep Power: 42	I read somewhere years ago that ditching the IRS saved about $70 million smackers in total development costs.

June 23rd, 2009, 5:40 AM	#12
starfox07 Joined: Oct 7th, 2007 Last Online: 6:32 AM Location: Ennis, Tx, USA Age: 20 Posts: 3,873 Car: 1984 Mazda RX7 GSL-SE Rep Power: 108	Couldn't you offset that buy just charging $100 more for each car? Most consumers would not even notice. __________________ -Environmentally Hostile-

June 23rd, 2009, 7:05 AM	#13
GRtak Joined: Sep 6th, 2008 Last Online: March 18th, 2010 Location: Michigan USA Age: 40 Posts: 958 Rep Power: 19	Well that sounds like the William Clay Ford jr. that I know and despise. IRS could have been an option(at worse) and should have been to satisfy all BUYERS. __________________ "Obviously, every mountain has already been climbed, which is why, nowadays, you need to reach the top of Everest in the nude to make waves."- Jeremy Clarkson "Scientists are saying the future is going to be far more futuristic than originally predicted."- Krysta Now- Southland Tales

June 23rd, 2009, 7:31 AM	#14
Arctor Joined: Jun 29th, 2008 Last Online: Yesterday Location: NC Age: 26 Posts: 568 Car: 97 MX-5 M, 90 928GT, 89 635CSi Rep Power: 33	Worst part is they spend a lot more development money and time trying to make an archaic technology work, when they would have actually saved a ton of money by devrlopng suspensions for multiple cars at once. Pity.

June 23rd, 2009, 7:42 AM	#15
argatoga Can't Start His Wank Joined: Oct 4th, 2005 Last Online: 7:26 AM Location: Washington State, USA Age: 26 Posts: 6,786 Car: '95 Jaguar XJ6, '78 MG Midget, '78 Honda CB400t Rep Power: 370	The best thing they could do is combine the Mustang and Falcon platforms. It would save them having to develop two fairly similar cars. __________________ "If you think about it breast implants aren't much different than braces. Their main purpose is to improve one's appearance, at least that's how it was in my case." - KaJun "Anyway, I'm off to eat my dick" - Austere

June 23rd, 2009, 7:57 AM	#17
argatoga Can't Start His Wank Joined: Oct 4th, 2005 Last Online: 7:26 AM Location: Washington State, USA Age: 26 Posts: 6,786 Car: '95 Jaguar XJ6, '78 MG Midget, '78 Honda CB400t Rep Power: 370	I doubt there would be much of an issue. The Falcon needs to keep up with American Leyland's best efforts down there. Ford would just need to make it a bit smaller for the Mustang. Hell I could see Ford selling the Mustang down there as a their equivalent to the Monaro. __________________ "If you think about it breast implants aren't much different than braces. Their main purpose is to improve one's appearance, at least that's how it was in my case." - KaJun "Anyway, I'm off to eat my dick" - Austere

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