BMW: The Ultimate Cracking Machine

[thedguy]

+ Google Video

http://www.wcclaw.com/CM/Cases/BMW-Subframe.asp

BMW Defect - Subframe CrackWasserman, Comden & Casselman, L.L.P. is investigating claims concerning defects in BMW 3 series vehicles manufactured between 1999 and 2005.

The investigation revolves around claims that the BMW 3 Series vehicles manufactured during this time period may contain a manufacturing and/or design defect that severely compromises the safety, durability, and performance of the vehicle. A class action lawsuit has been filed which alleges that the manufacturing and/or design defect includes a weak or insufficient floor panel in the unibody of the vehicle that causes, among other things, cracking in the floor pan and misalignment, cracking or the complete or partial failure of the rear subframe of the vehicle. Plaintiffs are informed and believe that the rear mounting points for the subframe rip out from their spots in the sheet metal because the rear differential transmits the torsional load from the engine through the subframe, then into the chassis. The constant loading and unloading weakens the insufficient sheet metal, causing it to fatigue and separate from the chassis. Plaintiffs are informed and believe that Defendants first learned of this problem in the E36 vehicles, and tried to correct the problem in the E46 by placing a cross member on the front two mounting points of the subframe. Although the cross member keeps the front mounting points from having problems by placing the bushing and the stud in double-sheer, thus reducing the twisting action on the sheet metal, the cross member creates an unfortunate side effect in that the load from the front of the subframe is transmitted to the left rear of the subframe, causing failures of the chassis, which then affects the safety of the vehicle. The cross member is defective in that it experiences movement, which then causes damage to other parts of the vehicle, including the floor plan. The cracks may initially develop during the warranty period, but not become visible to the naked eye until the warranty period has already expired.

A kit for the e46, there's also one for the E36.
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html..._ID=TDR4675412



The Z3's are known to have this trouble as well.

[Spectre]

Weren't you just advocating that someone should purchase an E36 in another thread?

[LeMans GTR]

Aren't you aware that this is just another one of those crackpot lawsuits some fat American idiot filled because he was bored. ( I'm saying this because my family owned a BMW 318i from 2001 to 2004 )

[thedguy]

I only posted the lawsuit because it gave the best description. I hate class action lawsuits because the only people who benefit are the liars...err lawyers.

Search it up, you'll get plenty of hits on various forums and mailing lists of people describing the problem, and even a lovely video that I fixed the link to. A friend of mine has had a 93 325 (one of the worst known for this problem) for a few years now and hasn't seen a problem, another guy I know has had more e36's in various trim that I can count without a problem.

Weren't you just advocating that someone should purchase an E36 in another thread?

Yep!

I'm a dick like that I've also advocated people buy a z06 and then posted about the free convertible top some owners get to their dismay.





edit: I really need to learn to stick with my original posts rather than editing my posts 1500 times.

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by thedguy

Lucky for me I have a love hate relationship with BMW. I love to drive their cars, hate to own them. I think I've spent as much time under (the hood) as I have driving or riding in bmws.

I had a 1992 750iL for quite a while as an adjunct to my then Jaguar project (since departed iin favor of my current pair). That 750 gave me more problems than I ever had with a Jaguar, and some of the engineering that BMW used made me wonder WTF they were thinking. Jaguar traditionally has occasionally used elegant and complex answers to engineering questions nobody asked; BMW appears to use eleant and complex answers to engineering questions that had actually already been asked, answered, and codified in simpler, less problematic solutions.

I still want to know what idiot thought it was a good idea to locate the battery *inside the cabin* underneath the right rear passenger seat (powered adjustable seat, very heavy, surprisingly difficult to remove, not corrosionproofed underneath, easily eroded by hydrogen gas).

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by Spectre

I had a 1992 750iL for quite a while.

Oh, sorry.

[MadCow809]

Originally Posted by Spectre

Weren't you just advocating that someone should purchase an E36 in another thread?

lol

[LeMans GTR]

It seems the problem is mostly associated with the E36 while not being as common in E46s.

[unknownspeedster]

my dads 318i E46 suffered from that pretty much as the dealer said it doesnt follow a patern, it just happens to them, E90 has been fixed so it not an isssue but late e36 and early e46 are the most common to have this problem after some attepted repairs we gave up on it, since the car creates a thumping noise from the rear when u brake or accelerate, we gave up on it and have now sold it for a subaru tribecca, pretty much bmw will not offically agree this is a problem and not fix it for free, in australia bmw australia pretty much claim its up to the dealer to deside wether it will be repaired, sadly our only bmw dealer said they wouldnt so we sold it
long read

[Deviate]

Originally Posted by LeMans GTR

It seems the problem is mostly associated with the E36 while not being as common in E46s.

It's more common in the e36, sure, but it's becomming a bigger issue every day with the e46.

It would be nice if BMW NA would own up to it and issue a recall. That would save me from having to pay for the Turner Racing kit install.

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by LeMans GTR

It seems the problem is mostly associated with the E36 while not being as common in E46s.

The E46 has the problem, it's just slightly different. They put in a brace on the front mounts (proves right there they knew there was a problem with the e36's), but that just put more load on the rear mounts.

It's also quite a big problem on the Z3's, and some E39's I think said have shown to have it.

[Indiana Jones]

Originally Posted by LeMans GTR

Aren't you aware that this is just another one of those crackpot lawsuits some fat American idiot filled because he was bored. ( I'm saying this because my family owned a BMW 318i from 2001 to 2004 )

I don't think so. The guys on e46fantatics.com have been talking about this for years. Hopefully BMW can deal with the issue (if there is one) and no lawsuits are necessary.

[LeMans GTR]

@ Indiana Jones, thedguy and Deviate.

I don't think BMW is going to issue a recall, after all they have stopped making E46s.

[thedguy]

I didn't expect them to. They didn't with the E36, it would be way to costly. It is far cheaper to just act like there isn't a problem, and deal with the legal hassles later. Plus it'll prove that German Engineering ain't all it's cracked up to be, a reputation that VW and Mercedes have spent years trying to destroy, with surprising little luck.

[Deviate]

Originally Posted by LeMans GTR

@ Indiana Jones, thedguy and Deviate.

I don't think BMW is going to issue a recall, after all they have stopped making E46s.

That shouldn't stop them. I just got a recall notice on my '96 Ford F-350's cruise control module a couple months ago.

The main things that will stop them are the sheer volume of cars and the resources needed to complete the recall. We're talking about a LOT of cars to pull apart.

[ethirtysex]

This lawsuit is no joke. I sold my last car because I couldn't deal with the noises the subframe failure was making. The cracking was frightening when I finally got it on a lift and had a look. The poor car was excellent other than that, it was a real shame.

[LeMans GTR]

In that case all my previous comments from this thread are now void.

[tigger]

What a shame. The old E36 and E46s seem like alot of fun, i'd hate to have to worry about my subframe falling apart on the road. I hate stupid law suits, but at least this one seems to have a point, even though there's probably no feasible way that BMW could recall all these cars for repair.

[Ventura6]

Originally Posted by thedguy

I only posted the lawsuit because it gave the best description. I hate class action lawsuits because the only people who benefit are the liars...err lawyers.

Contrary to popular belief, reading John Grisham's King of Torts doesn't make you an expert on class action lawsuits.

[thedguy]

Didn't know it was a popular belief. I don't waste my energy on novels, I'd much rather read an engineering text book, or something educational.

I was referencing lawsuits like the split fire plugs:

The Case of the Sorry Spark
SplitFire relentlessly advertised for years that their spark plugs were superior due to a V-shaped electrode. This magical elecrode supposedly delivered more horsepower and better fuel economy. Praise was so universal for the plugs that even skeptics like us were beginning to sway. Then the Federal Trade Commission came to SplitFire's party and peed in the punchbowl.

In Federal Trade Commission v. SplitFire, Inc., the FTC demanded that SplitFire quit making claims that their spark plugs improve fuel economy, horsepower or emissions, and further quit claiming that testimonials in favor of the spark plugs are typical results of using them. SplitFire agreed to this, which they could have avoided if they had a shred of evidence to show that the plugs do, in fact, work as advertised. We have the Complaint, the Agreement Containing Consent Order, and the Decision and Order.

Hot on the heels of the FTC action, there's this pitiful excuse of a class-action settlement called Singleton v. SplitFire Inc. If there was ever a posterboy for the right to opt out, this case is it.

So Alvin Singleton and Julie Massier, our representatives, decide that SplitFire plugs are defective and sue. They make it a class-action to "help" us. What do they settle for? Two free SplitFire spark plugs and the right to buy six more at 25% off. Great! Thanks a lot!! To make reparations for selling useless spark plugs, they're giving away useless spark plugs! Where's the justice here?

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

Or another case against motorola where a problem with a $320 phone got them a $25 credit towards their bills. But the attorneys got a healthy chunk of change.