expensive American cars...

[xavier86]

Should GM/Ford/Chrystler make an ultra-luxury Rolls Royce/Maybach-like car that costs $400,000 and is state of the art in engine power and interior/exterior design?

I wonder why it is that while America cars are very powerful they have rubbish handling and awful interiors. Even the Corvettes use that cheap American plastic interior.

I'd really like an American Maybach 62. Maybe Cadillac would be the best company to take it on because their name means 'luxury' to the common ear.

[SuperStalin]

Because nobody would buy it.
There's more in a name and style associated with it ( through decades ),
than in actual quality.

Besides, I think Maybach wasn't exactly a stellar success.

[xavier86]

True but the Cadillac name has associated with luxury for a very long time. Only recently has it fallen out of that highlight. Maybe making a half-million dollar car for all the celebs to buy would put it back on the map as far as ultra-luxury goes?


edit: and this is an example of what Cadillac should NOT be trying to achieve!!

http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-could...-cadillac.html

what rubbish!!

[Masternate2071]

It would just add to their financial problems. They need to concentrate on making a decent small car.

And to answer your question xavier, I think its because Ford, GM and Crysler still seam to build cars like they did in the 50s. Bigger and heavier. I believe it was the Japanese and Europeans who invented disc brakes and rack and pinion steering, and limted slip differentials and such.

I'd go into a little more depth, but I'm at work, typing this when no one is looking.

[ruuman]

I think your right, there would be a market for it. The problem is all the big American manufacturers have bought other premium groups. Like Ford had Aston Jag and land rover. Chrysler has Merc and GM has Cadillac.

The problem with Cadillac is they never go all out with the luxury as they are built to a price. To build a premium luxury car you need to commit to a few things.

a) money is no object, it will cost what it costs.
b) don't hold back with penny pinching.
c) remember you are competing with the best and selling to a customer who is buying your product because it is the best not the best value.

The most important thing to remember though, is all you always need start out as a premium brand, imagine if Kia decided to do the same thing, even if it was good no one would buy it.

The best way I could see a big USA autogiant achieving this would be use an old 20/30's name and build the car under that. Much like VW with Bugati or Spyker, then follow the simple rules above.

[MPowered]

I think most Americans have put the Germans on top of the luxury pedestal. The Japanese makers, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, are a notch below even though they all make competitive products. Mercedes-Benz and BMW have ruled this territory in the States for so long it'll be difficult for competitors to come in and shake it up. Like other have said, it takes time to build brand awareness, not just a high quality car.

But I do think of all the domestics, Cadillac has the best chance. Their cars these days are night-and-day better than what they used to be, and they're quite competitive now with their offerings. If they bring back an old American nameplate and build an uber-car, like Maybach-Mercedes, it *might* work. All those Escalade buyers need somewhere to upgrade to.

[xavier86]

Think of all the rappers and basketball players that instead of an Escalade their get an uber-Cadillac 4 dr saloon with Steinway wood, expensive leather interior work, plush carpetting, bose audio, v12 600 bhp, etc etc you get the point

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by BimmerFan

I think most Americans have put the Germans on top of the luxury pedestal. The Japanese makers, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, are a notch below even though they all make competitive products. Mercedes-Benz and BMW have ruled this territory in the States for so long it'll be difficult for competitors to come in and shake it up. Like other have said, it takes time to build brand awareness, not just a high quality car.

But I do think of all the domestics, Cadillac has the best chance. Their cars these days are night-and-day better than what they used to be, and they're quite competitive now with their offerings. If they bring back an old American nameplate and build an uber-car, like Maybach-Mercedes, it *might* work. All those Escalade buyers need somewhere to upgrade to.

Cadillac could actually do it themselves in terms of a nameplate - see the *original* Cadillac Phaetons, with a V16 engine.

But, if it is determined that an older nameplate must be resurrected, there really is only one choice, isn't there?

"Duesenberg."

[Vitamin J]

What like this?

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by xavier86

I wonder why it is that while America cars are very powerful they have rubbish handling and awful interiors. Even the Corvettes use that cheap American plastic interior.

The awful interiors are usually forced upon designers by corporate beancounters (accountants) who try to cut corners *everywhere* they can. For example, the C5 Corvette's interior bits are *literally* the switchgear and controls from a FWD Impala. The good news is that the Cadillac XLR (their version of the Vette) at least has a decent to good interior, at last.

The handling issue is a bit more complex. You have to realize that we didn't have a real highway system in the US until after World War II, when our servicemen came back after seeing the European road systems and wondering why ours sucked so bad. <Warning: Sweeping generalizations ahead. Not all American roads are flat and straight, we do have our share of twisties (Deal's Gap, Pacific Coast Highway, Mulholland Drive, the Texas Hill Country) and such, but our geography dictates the layout and type of roads we have.> Due to the long distances involved, American roads have traditionally been as straight and flat as possible given the terrain and engineering capabilities at the time of construction so as to minimize travel time and construction cost. They were/are also (due to the vast distances involved, corrupt politicians, and other factors) often ill- or under-maintained. "Sporty" handling suspensions from the 30s to the 60s (specifically 1960, when Jaguar introduced the E-Type) usually resulted in a rather uncomfortable ride on long highway trips. Customers demanded greater comfort, as they did not wish to arrive at their destination after a 1000-mile drive (in a single day!) sore and worn out. This resulted in most cars being designed to go long distances in a straight line with maximum comfort for the occupants. This also seemed to sell well in other countries, so the "land barge" paradigm was well etched into the Big Three's design DNA. The powerful engines? That's to eat up the road quickly.

{Sidebar: For you Europeans who aren't familiar with the situation, let me lay out a scenario for you. Texas, my home state, is one of 50 states in the union. It has about five to ten major cities in it, and Dallas is in the north central section of the state. Our next-door-neighbor city is Fort Worth, approximately 45 miles away from city center to city center. Urban sprawl has linked the two cities, so they're pretty much considered the same metropolitan area, sort of like how Buda and Pest merged except far more recently.

It is 250 miles (403km) from here to the capital, Austin, in the center of the state. If I wish to go to El Paso, Texas, it is an *880* mile or 1416km trip. And that's just the distances inside one of fifty states! Driving between Dallas and El Paso is like driving from Rome to Moscow or from Istanbul to Paris. And there's miles and miles of nothing but miles and miles of sometimes undermaintained flat highway between here and there.}


Now, you have to also remember that this was the state of things in the American automotive industry for literally 40 years. It became an entrenched mantra - and the real competition from imports didn't even show up on the radar until the 1970s. You have to admit that the early post-war imports were pretty pathetic - the BMW Isetta? The VW Bug? The Honda S600? Can't really blame the Big Three for laughing at such efforts when the general public was doing the same thing. However, what they didn't seem to understand was that those companies would keep improving and wouldn't stay with the status quo. And as with many entrenched industries, the American makers didn't really start realizing that good handling was no longer incompatible with a good highway ride thanks to advances in technology for some time after that.

Even today, the hoary old design DNA is there. Combine that with the beancounters we have that nickel and dime every good US car design until it's a pale shadow of what the designer intended, and you have a bad situation. There were/are also contributing factors, like the idiot that introduced "planned obsolescence" and the marketing droids that plan on consumer stupidity to sell next years' model - too bad consumers aren't that stupid any more.

There are signs that this is finally going away. Audi's new magnetic shock technology was developed by GM and licensed by Audi as a cheaper and more reliable alternative to complex active handling systems (which usually don't work all that well anyway).

[nomix]

Originally Posted by Spectre

The good news is that the Cadillac XLR (their version of the Vette) at least has a decent to good interior, at last.

To be honest, the XLR is the only car I've seen where a car firm has managed to make high quality wood look like cheap plastics.

[zaybxcwd12]

I suppose there is a option to "rename" the brand, like a Lexus is really a Toyota. Somehow I just can't see it working. Take Ford they own Jaguar and AM.

Ford DB9 (that ain't gonna work)
Jaguar made in Detroit rather than Swindon (Thats not going to work either).

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by nomix

To be honest, the XLR is the only car I've seen where a car firm has managed to make high quality wood look like cheap plastics.

Sorry, but BMW pioneered that field. I had a 750iL that I swear had vinyl fake wood accents, but they really were real wood from a tree. As someone once commented, "BMW is the master of making wood look like plastic."

(Most of the pro reviewers have mentioned that repeatedly over the years.)

[No Boss]

Originally Posted by nomix

To be honest, the XLR is the only car I've seen where a car firm has managed to make high quality wood look like cheap plastics.

Agreed.

I have to disagree with Spectre on this one because I've been in several XLRs and it's just dissappointing. Sure the push button door opener thingy is really cool, and the keyless engine start/stop is a party peice... but there's just this feeling of it being fake. The wood is fake, the BVLGARI gauages are fake, and the plastics that they use for bits of trim(same they use throughout the Caddy line) are just so depressing. I hate to quote the TopGear guys here, but it really felt like they were so close to making a great car that was a nice place to be....and then lost it.

IMO, the American car industry needs to focus on getting back ontop of it's game (some could argue it's getting there), not building ultra-highend automobiles.

[Narcolepsy]

Cadillac Sixteen - pretty please GM - built it. That could/would do it. (Although I agree that the XLR doesn't live up)

[MPowered]

One thing I don't understand about the XLR is why the top opens the way it does:



It opens up waaaay too high. I feel like a slight wind could break the whole assembly...not to mention splling any left over water all over the place. Why couldn't they just do it the way Mercedes does with the SL?

[nomix]

Not to mention if you're under a roof. Sure, you won't put the roof up very often while under a roof, but still, a car that's so expensive SHOULD be foul proof.

[NecroJoe]

PLus, if someone's walking past you when you're putting the roof up, isn't your trunk wiiiide open?

[KaJuN]

Are people so into bashing American cars that they start complaining that a roof goes too high when it opens? Wow. To me it looks a lot more robust than the Merc's. And about spilling water when it opens? Just take a look at where the roof on the Mercedes is pointed. Yep, right down the back of your shirt.

The XLR is meant to be a sports car, not an all-out luxury machine. It always gets me that people complain about building down to a cost. When's the last time you compared Corvettes with Ferraris, Porsches, and the like? All the specs are pretty similar, except for the prices.

Maybe some rich dudes will resurect Duesenberg and we'll have an uber luxury car here.

[SuperStalin]

Originally Posted by KaJuN

Are people so into bashing American cars that they start complaining that a roof goes too high when it opens? Wow. To me it looks a lot more robust than the Merc's.