Fight of the day: Porsche vs Ken Livingstone

[Gibby]

From TopGear.com

Get ready for a proper old-fashioned scrap. Porsche is gunning for Ken Livingstone over his plans to increase the top-end congestion charge... and we can't see either camp backing down.

Porsche says it plans to ask for a judicial review of the price changes, which come into force in October and will see cars producing more than 225g/km of CO2 paying £25 per day to enter the zone, while cars emitting less than 100g/km of CO2 will drive for free.

The German manufacturer believes that the new rules are 'disproportionate' and will not lower emissions levels in central London, and plans to write to the mayor's office.

"A massive congestion charge increase is quite simply unjust," said Porsche GB's Andy Goss. "Thousands of car owners will be hit by a disproportionate tax which clearly will have a very limited effect on CO2 emissions.

But Red Ken doesn't seem likely to change his mind. "No one needs to drive these really big polluting cars in central London," said Mayoral advisor Mark Watts. "You will have to pay for the cost of pollution that you inflict on everyone."

Transport for London believes that two-thirds of the 33,000 top-rate vehicles currently using the charge zone will no longer enter the zone when the new fees are introduced.

It looks set to be a cracking fight. Get your front row seats and popcorn now.

I hope more car companies support Porsche on this one because I have had enough of that moron Livingstone and his war on Cars!

[MattD1zzl3]

Lol @ "Red ken".

Do mayors really have all that much power over there?

[Twerp128]

There's a little saying we picked up over in America a while ago, something along the lines of, "No taxation without representation." It seems to have helped us a lot.

[Flynn]

If it wasn't the Mayor it would be the government, trust me. They are all a bunch of punks.

[efoolution]

Originally Posted by Gibby

I hope more car companies support Porsche on this one because I have had enough of that moron Livingstone and his war on Cars!

I hope Companies would keep their Noses out of politics, especially if it´s not even in your own country ... let the People of London and England deal with Livingstone and his Ideas and decide whether they still want this or not. Elections in London are this May ...

It is totally unexceptable for a German Carmanufacturer to stick his nose into the buisness of a foreign City like that ... I certainly wouldn´t accept a british (nor any other countrys) Company trying to influence my hometowns politics. This is totally unacceptable.
I can understand why you´d applaud someone who opposes Livingstones Politics, but you can´t seriously want companies from anywhere trying to influence your local elections, can you?

[Gibby]

Originally Posted by efoolution

I hope Companies would keep their Noses out of politics, especially if it´s not even in your own country ... let the People of London and England deal with Livingstone and his Ideas and decide whether they still want this or not. Elections in London are this May ...

It is totally unexceptable for a German Carmanufacturer to stick his nose into the buisness of a foreign City like that ... I certainly wouldn´t accept a british (nor any other countrys) Company trying to influence my hometowns politics. This is totally unacceptable.
I can understand why you´d applaud someone who opposes Livingstones Politics, but you can´t seriously want companies from anywhere trying to influence your local elections, can you?

Well its Ken is out of control with his stupid enviroment crap and nobody is going to stop him! So yes, at this time i think companies need to stand up to the evil that is Livingstone. And i bet you he will be voted back in under the weight of those hippy moron ecomentalists this may.

Gib

[hajj]

Originally Posted by efoolution

I hope Companies would keep their Noses out of politics, especially if it´s not even in your own country ... let the People of London and England deal with Livingstone and his Ideas and decide whether they still want this or not. Elections in London are this May ...

It is totally unexceptable for a German Carmanufacturer to stick his nose into the buisness of a foreign City like that ... I certainly wouldn´t accept a british (nor any other countrys) Company trying to influence my hometowns politics. This is totally unacceptable.
I can understand why you´d applaud someone who opposes Livingstones Politics, but you can´t seriously want companies from anywhere trying to influence your local elections, can you?

Well all of Porsche's cars are affected by this, apart from the basic Boxter and Cayman, so they might lose quite a lot of business because of this. Ken certainly is not consistent first he extents the zone and then he puts this crazy pricing into place. I think everyone would be fine with the 25quid if residents are allowed to keep their discount.
I read somewhere else (Times?) that all cars in band's A & B will be excluded from the congestion charge. If that is true you can expect tons of 3-door 118d's in London (119g/km of CO2 )

[teeb]

Originally Posted by MattD1zzl3

Lol @ "Red ken".

Do mayors really have all that much power over there?

The Mayor of London is in charge, basically of the 7.5 million people who live in and around London. He has powers over :

"Transport, the police, fire and emergency services, cultural strategy and economic development."

Note he doesn't control everything about all these things, but he has a certain amount of control over each.

Recently Red Ken's been on this huge anti-car bender which has been getting quite absurd. The £8-a-day Congestion Charge was bad enough (but in fairness, since London has a huge public transport network, it's reasonable enough IMO), but quadrupling it for more polluting cars is entirely disproportionate. £25 is a lot of money just to get into central London.

And the Low Emissions Zone is an equally daft idea - essentially a larger CC zone, but for trucks and lorries, with the most polluting having to pay up to £200 a day to go in or near London.


Annoyingly, when I see him on TV Ken appears relatively likeable, and he's also quite funny, if you watch him on Have I Got News For You.

[ESPNSTI]

How do they monitor this stuff? With cameras?
You could consider buying an old crappy econo box as a 2nd car and switch plates.

[otispunkmeyer]

from the outside ken does look like a complete twat.

but aside from letting under 16's on the bus for free, alot of londons actually quite a pleasant place. you get the sense that they do infact spend the money trying to keep things clean and up to date. the buses and subway work quite well n all.

if you are a driver though, you better pucker that arsehole because you do get reamed.

infact that £25 charge applies even if your car is just parked in the c-zone, ou dont even have to be driving it.

[Cobol74]

I would never in a million years dream of driving in central London - and I grew up in London. Problem faced really is that the place was laid out before anyone thought of the car and is really badly designed for cars. The Public Transport is reasonable (although worse than when I was growing up there - Bendy Busses my arse!) so you can get around via Taxis, Trains and the Underground plus Busses.

Red Ken was called Red Ken for a reason - he used to fiance out of Tax payers money when he was the leader of the Greater London Council such things as the GAY, BLACK, DISABLED WORKERS SUPPORT UNIT, OK I para phrase, basically a load of clubs for his mates when he was a trotski communist (what was once called fellow traveller meaning a communist in all but name and in the Labour Party).

Mrs Thatcher so hated him that in the end she got rid of the Greater London Council which stubbornly always returned Labour (and hence Red Ken) to power no matter what she did. She formed the unelected London Residual Body having taken a load of the GLCs powers into central government.

Spring forward to Tony Blair - "I know", he thinks "I'll re-instate the GLC and we will have a nice Labour City and head the American way"! never thinking in a million years that Red Ken would stand for mayor. Well he saw to it that Red Ken did not get the Labour Party Nomination and I think he booted Red Ken out of the Labour party too for some indescretion or other. Anyhoo he stood as an independent and only won big time!

So as much as I dislike Red Ken it cheers me up that that prize dick TB ended up with egg on his smug face.

Well, now that being a communist is not so clever he has decided to be an environmentalist (BTW he fancies newts and is a well known newt collector).

[tigger]

Originally Posted by efoolution

It is totally unexceptable for a German Carmanufacturer to stick his nose into the buisness of a foreign City like that ...

Livingston is fighting for this ridiculous tax, what's wrong with Porsche fighting against it? They potentially stand to take a sales hit, so it's in their best interest to fight this. It's not like they're giving the Mayor a free 911, they're just writing him a letter and making their opinion known. Nothing wrong with that.

[prizrak]

They are just going to have a lot more Porsche taxi's driving around London these days . If you remember that episode of Top Gear where they said that taxi's are excluded from all that congestion charge nonsense

I always found strict environmental laws idiotic. Cars are one of the major sources of pollution but hardly the main one. It is also worth noting that the reason green cars are not all that popular with the driving enthusiast crowd is because they suck. IMO if you want people to embrace environmentally friendly transportation MAKE IT BETTER!!!!

[epp_b]

Very uncool Ken. Go Porsche!

[argatoga]

Originally Posted by efoolution

I hope Companies would keep their Noses out of politics, especially if it´s not even in your own country ... let the People of London and England deal with Livingstone and his Ideas and decide whether they still want this or not. Elections in London are this May ...

It is totally unexceptable for a German Carmanufacturer to stick his nose into the buisness of a foreign City like that ... I certainly wouldn´t accept a british (nor any other countrys) Company trying to influence my hometowns politics. This is totally unacceptable.
I can understand why you´d applaud someone who opposes Livingstones Politics, but you can´t seriously want companies from anywhere trying to influence your local elections, can you?

As long as Porsche is transparent and follows British law I don't see it as being an issue.

[jayhawk]

Originally Posted by Cobol74

Well, now that being a communist is not so clever he has decided to be an environmentalist.

Really, they are one in the same. Both ideology's have the same basic belief: hatred of the individual, absolute control over the masses.

[Blind_Io]

So by trying to prohibit these cars from driving through London, wouldn't drivers just take the long way around the motorway, have a nice lark on the freeway and save themselves the cash of cutting through town?

Yeah, this is a load of bollocks.

[Cobol74]

^ That is OK if you are not going into the City. The M25 Motorway is very heavily congested for that very reason - oh and it was under engineered in the first place. In the 1960s the plan was for three motorway standard ring roads. One that would make the A205 and the North Circular one. A second inside where the M25 is now and one out side that. Would have worked but the Tories lost the election so we did not get it. I remember the Labour slogan now "Homes before roads". We were in massive debt and the housing stock was still suffering from the ravages of the war.

I would point out we setteled our debts, the rest of Europe defaulted and started again.

[klutch]

Quite frankly, if you've bought a Porche and all you do is drive around London in it, you're 1) a twat 2) deserving of a 25-pound a day surcharge.

Also, how many of you own a Porsche, or further, any car that emits over 220gm's/km? And of those that do, how many of you live in London? Exactly.


I've been to London many times, both by car, train, bus and plane. Frankly, I have no idea why you would choose the first option. Driving in London, especially in a sportscar/SUV makes no sense whatsoever.

[vRS]

Originally Posted by ESPNSTI

How do they monitor this stuff? With cameras?
You could consider buying an old crappy econo box as a 2nd car and switch plates.

Nanny state so of course.