Good thing half of you drive subaru's

[SL65]

Hey Night_Hawk,

Have you found out if you drove the 2.2L or 2.5L Outback? I don't know about the American spec cars you guys have over there. But over here, the 2nd generation Legacy Outbacks were only available with the 2.5's...

I'll agree with everything the members here have said about Subaru's. Yes they are reliable. However - the 2.5L (non-turbo) DOHC engine is one Subaru's not so reliable engines. They are prone to blown head gaskets. And if your not careful, you could throw a big end bearing. All of which are costly jobs. So a mechanical inspection pre-purchase is imperative or else you may want to set-aside more than $1500 in case you run into any problems with the engine.

Otherwise, the 2nd generation Legacy's are great, robust vehicles. More-so the Outback obviously. I have one (not Outback, just the sedan) and it gives me a rock solid feeling everytime I drive it. The engine is reasonably responsive, but its no rocket ship. Your Buick V6 must've been fairly slow if your impressed by the Legacy (no offence).

Fuel economy wasn't great when the car was released and it tends not to get better as life goes on. Older examples of the 2.5 have been known to drink like V8's if they weren't maintained properly so be aware of that. Do try stick with a stick-shift if you want the better economy, obviously.

Anyways, keep us posted!

[prizrak]

Originally Posted by SL65

Hey Night_Hawk,

Have you found out if you drove the 2.2L or 2.5L Outback? I don't know about the American spec cars you guys have over there. But over here, the 2nd generation Legacy Outbacks were only available with the 2.5's...

I'll agree with everything the members here have said about Subaru's. Yes they are reliable. However - the 2.5L (non-turbo) DOHC engine is one Subaru's not so reliable engines. They are prone to blown head gaskets. And if your not careful, you could throw a big end bearing. All of which are costly jobs. So a mechanical inspection pre-purchase is imperative or else you may want to set-aside more than $1500 in case you run into any problems with the engine.

Otherwise, the 2nd generation Legacy's are great, robust vehicles. More-so the Outback obviously. I have one (not Outback, just the sedan) and it gives me a rock solid feeling everytime I drive it. The engine is reasonably responsive, but its no rocket ship. Your Buick V6 must've been fairly slow if your impressed by the Legacy (no offence).

Fuel economy wasn't great when the car was released and it tends not to get better as life goes on. Older examples of the 2.5 have been known to drink like V8's if they weren't maintained properly so be aware of that. Do try stick with a stick-shift if you want the better economy, obviously.

Anyways, keep us posted!

The V6 in the Century was a complete POS. 160HP and 160TQ out of a V6... Also the tranny was beyond slushy, it would basically go all the way to 4th gear as soon as you turn the car on so you had no acceleration at all. Hell I could feel the difference in acceleration between a cold day and a warm day.... So yeah not a sporty car there

[SL65]

Originally Posted by prizrak

The V6 in the Century was a complete POS. 160HP and 160TQ out of a V6... Also the tranny was beyond slushy, it would basically go all the way to 4th gear as soon as you turn the car on so you had no acceleration at all. Hell I could feel the difference in acceleration between a cold day and a warm day.... So yeah not a sporty car there

Haha, lol, that bad is it?! Ah geez, it sounds like a terrible engine-tranny combo!

[LeVeL]

After doing a turbo swap in a parking lot I can tell you this much: Subarus arent hard to work on, just different because of the unusual engine configuration. Everything is pretty straight forward though, you shouldnt have any problems.

[Night_Hawk]

Originally Posted by prizrak

The V6 in the Century was a complete POS. 160HP and 160TQ out of a V6... Also the tranny was beyond slushy, it would basically go all the way to 4th gear as soon as you turn the car on so you had no acceleration at all. Hell I could feel the difference in acceleration between a cold day and a warm day.... So yeah not a sporty car there

well...165hp/185tq, not exactly 100hp/L but Ive done 8.5 second 0-60's before

ironically the engine is the best part of the car, but ill admit the tranny is pretty sad

Im still highly interested in the Subie, but can you guys think of any 4wd/awd gas savers? im pretty much happy with any amount of power and style btw, ill save the grand prix for serious stuff

I won't have problems in the snow, last winter I drove the buick over all kinds of snow with only bald tires up front.

[JakeRadden]

All of this talk is making me more and more want a Scooby when I do buy a new car.
Although I was bored yesterday, grabbed up on Progressive and got myself a quote for a base Legacy of something near $3400. Not quite sure how that's realistic.

[prizrak]

Originally Posted by Night_Hawk

well...165hp/185tq, not exactly 100hp/L but Ive done 8.5 second 0-60's before

ironically the engine is the best part of the car, but ill admit the tranny is pretty sad

Im still highly interested in the Subie, but can you guys think of any 4wd/awd gas savers? im pretty much happy with any amount of power and style btw, ill save the grand prix for serious stuff

I won't have problems in the snow, last winter I drove the buick over all kinds of snow with only bald tires up front.

Ahh you got the 94, those were actually better mine was a 98 those got slower .

The only AWD gas savers are the ones that run 2WD most of the time. I only know of the little SUV type things that do it. There is also an Infinity that does it but we are talking brand new and probably way overpriced. I'd say an A4 they are not bad out of turbo range but I don't think they very reliable and are pretty expensive to repair (sadly I know )

All of this talk is making me more and more want a Scooby when I do buy a new car.
Although I was bored yesterday, grabbed up on Progressive and got myself a quote for a base Legacy of something near $3400. Not quite sure how that's realistic.

How old are you?? Even in Brooklyn with 4 points on my license and only 3 years of having one it's not quite as much.

[JakeRadden]

16, good school records, went to Driver's Ed AND a defensive driving class (Which was fucking awesome by the way), never had any moving nor nonmoving violation.
I have no idea why it's so high.

[Night_Hawk]

Originally Posted by prizrak

Ahh you got the 94, those were actually better mine was a 98 those got slower .

The only AWD gas savers are the ones that run 2WD most of the time. I only know of the little SUV type things that do it. There is also an Infinity that does it but we are talking brand new and probably way overpriced. I'd say an A4 they are not bad out of turbo range but I don't think they very reliable and are pretty expensive to repair (sadly I know )

yeah Buick changed the century in 1996 I think, added weight and forgot to add power.

I was also looking at a 2.5L jeep TJ and a Geo Tracker, both 4cyl and AWD

edit-- SL65-- I still haven't found out, whenever I take it to get inspected ill check it out and post here. or something along the lines of that.

I've got some looking left to do, but I'm sure I wont buy another FWD vehicle

[Night_Hawk]

Okay, big and surprising change of plans... thread title is officially misleading as of now

the Subaru was kind of fazed out for a number of reasons.... and now I'm looking at the following vehicles.

I know I said I would never buy FWD again but for a gas saver they make sense, I've also discovered I have no worries in the snow anymore because of experience driving the buick with summer tires in a place as snowy as Norway in the winter.

But onward with the current candidates...

1.99-02 Toyota echo ( amazing MPG but undeniably ugly and FWD)
2.96-02 Toyota corolla ( same as echo but I would retain more dignity)
3.97-99 Toyota Rav4 ( 4WD is what I really want but MPG is not amazing)
4.2001ish Mazda protege ( apparently really solid cars and fun to drive- but MPG is not really amazing ethier)

I'm really leaning toward a RAV4, as it would be the most fun in the snow by far, but I have been finding good deals on the others.

the echo is interesting because of the 2000lbs weight and the 44mpg hwy.

I'm basically looking for anything cheap solid and fun, I'm open to suggestions, I was wondering if anyone has any ideas, or any personal experience with any of these cars. Thanks in advance again .

[prizrak]

RAV4 should be pretty good on gas, far as I remember it is RWD normally and only transfers torque to the front when necessary.

I would also look at a Mazda 3 if they are in your price range should be a hoot to drive. Also take a look at a Civic about same MPG as Corolla but should be less boring.

[Hidden_Hunter]

Originally Posted by prizrak

RAV4 should be pretty good on gas, far as I remember it is RWD normally and only transfers torque to the front when necessary.

I would also look at a Mazda 3 if they are in your price range should be a hoot to drive. Also take a look at a Civic about same MPG as Corolla but should be less boring.

Other way around in the RAV4 it's FWD normally and only sends power to the rear when needed. My aunt and uncle have one it's not exactly what you call "fun" practical but not fun (the manual transmission is fairly average as well)

[Night_Hawk]

I have a $4000 limit I might add.



just found a local ad for a 1999 Toyota echo, very good condition, 150k 5spd all for exactly 4 grand

40+mpg is tempting sometimes,
but the amount of gay in the interior is jaw dropping

[prizrak]

Originally Posted by Hidden_Hunter

Other way around in the RAV4 it's FWD normally and only sends power to the rear when needed. My aunt and uncle have one it's not exactly what you call "fun" practical but not fun (the manual transmission is fairly average as well)

Never did see much point to such a setup. I guess the only time it would ever use RWD is when you are understeering like a maniac, which would basically mean that the car is always FWD. Not like this is a real off roader or "performance" car. Should have just made it FWD and save a bit of weight.

Echo sux. It is very practical, and is quite a bit larger inside than you would think but you gonna want to kill yourself compared to even the Buick.

[Night_Hawk]

Originally Posted by prizrak

Echo sux. It is very practical, and is quite a bit larger inside than you would think but you gonna want to kill yourself compared to even the Buick.

I can have fun in a 2000lb car

I've driven in them and they just cannot break, no joking at all me and someone else I used to work with actually got air in one. he was driving the shit out of it and it just glided along with no troubles at all. the buick squeaks and cracks around town over regular bumps.

its even almost as fast in a straight line ( gasp!! )

[prizrak]

Originally Posted by Night_Hawk

I can have fun in a 2000lb car

I've driven in them and they just cannot break, no joking at all me and someone else I used to work with actually got air in one. he was driving the shit out of it and it just glided along with no troubles at all. the buick squeaks and cracks around town over regular bumps.

its even almost as fast in a straight line ( gasp!! )

I drove one and made the check engine light come on at about 80

[Spazatao]

Well, if you take in consideration only numbers and technical specs, I'd buy the Corolla. They have good reputation as solid cars and get very good MPG. But they are utterly boring, I have to admit. I wouldn't go to the RAV4 as I don't think it's either more fun or more economical than other cars you've thought of...

Don't exactly know all the options you have in the US but I think you've figured it out that a japanese car is the more likely choice.

[Night_Hawk]

Originally Posted by Spazatao

Well, if you take in consideration only numbers and technical specs, I'd buy the Corolla. They have good reputation as solid cars and get very good MPG. But they are utterly boring, I have to admit. I wouldn't go to the RAV4 as I don't think it's either more fun or more economical than other cars you've thought of...

Don't exactly know all the options you have in the US but I think you've figured it out that a japanese car is the more likely choice.

yeah, the corolla is a bit of a trade off with the echo, the corolla is a more conventional car and less of a bubble, but the echo is better on gas.

about the japanese cars, I have always loved/defended American cars as I grew up around them and constantly have been in/around them my whole life (Old family muscle cars and all that good stuff)

But at the moment, in this class of cars, the sunfire/cavalier would be the only American choice. and there are millions in my town, all riced out and generally in horrible shape. I know I wouldn't enjoy one at all (sorry Jayhawk if you're reading, lol )

so the above reasons as well as others have led me to where I am now, after all , I've still got the Grand prix

[tigger]

Personally, I'd buy the cheapest running beater I could, then stick a big block in the Pontiac . But I'm just a glutton for punishment.

You might want to look at the '90-'99 Toyota Celica. The '86-'90 were great cars too, but maybe that's a little older than what you're looking for. Anyway, the hi-po FWD GT and GTS cars are fun to drive, and there was the GT-4/All-Trac with AWD and the turbo 3SGTE. The only reason my '86 GTS (with a quarter million miles on it) is parked at the moment is that it needs a water pump. They're tough, reliable cars in my experience. Kind of a pain to work on though, unless you've got tiny hands.

[Night_Hawk]

Back to the 98 Subaru Outback for a second


I have read a lot about the head gasket problems with the 2.5L engine, and apparently the usual situation goes as follows

1. head gasket fails.
.
2. cylinder head warps.
.
3. you need new engine or at least new Gaskets and a fair bit of work.

But... I also came across this... ( copied and pasted from a random forum)

I was in unusual situation where I was able to find the head warp
"gasket fail" problem before the dealers were getting any failures.
Many years ago I adapted a new 2.5 (10k miles) to my airplane. I have
sensors galore on the plane, so when the head first started leaking, I
was able to look at the data on my laptop and see that the head leaked
pressure to coolant system 3 seconds after I hit full throttle. It then
dissipated 5 seconds later. I really learned a lot and deliberately
operated at full throttle for long periods (hour or two). All the time
logging the pressures and temps every few milliseconds.

So here's the deal. All failures are caused by air in the cooling
system. No air, no problem. If you have air bubble AND you operate
at high throttle settings, the head will warp. It takes a long time to
show up. So if there was trapped air 6 months ago, then you might
now start to see discolored coolant, overheating. Or it might only occur
climbing a hill in hot weather. Only the 2.5 has this marginal
condition. All other Subaru's bullet proof.

My flying partner makes a living replacing gaskets on 2.5's these days.
Number one repair item. *It appears that the 2.5 has an area at center
of block/head interface which doesn't have enough coolant flow. When a
bubble passes by, it boils locally. This eventually causes head to
warp, gasket to give out. Subaru has tried 3 different style gaskets,
even adding coolant conditioner to improve heat transfer. Still a
problem. But absolutely all failures caused by trapped air in system.
All models of 2.5 liter the same.

The solution is very simple. Just drill and tap your coolant crossover
pipe and add a fitting that allows air to leave engine and rise to your
swirl pot. You will never have a problem. I operate my engine full
throttle for hours at a time. Fabulous engine.

-al wick

I got a couple other private messages regarding the same. I'll try to
clarify...

The crossover tube is the aluminum coolant tube that lives under the
intake manifold. It's rectangular in shape and the main coolant hose
attaches to one end of it. It's the one everyone reverses. I'm unable
to say there is a "best place" to add a fitting to the tube. Likely it
does not matter where you place the fitting. Just somewhere in the top
of this tube. The fitting needs to be on this cross over tube because
this is the highest point in the ENGINE cooling system. Your goal is to
purge any air that happens to be in the engine. This is different than
purging air from your radiator or from your heater core. Air in the
engine causes head warp. Air in other components just reduce their
efficiency. We imagine that air flows with the moving coolant, but
actually it only does to small degree.

Drill and tap this tube. Install a fitting, and run hose from that
fitting to your swirl pot. No dips in hose, it must gradually rise to
swirl pot. As long as the swirl pot is above the engine it will
automatically purge all air from the engine. This results in a "robust"
cooling design. Robust meaning it handles unusual conditions. If your
brother in law borrows your vehicle, blows a hose, and doesn't realize
he needs to bleed air, no problem. Because your system automatically
purges all air from engine.




this guy uses his engine in an airplane. btw

does anybody around here with great mechanical knowledge think this would work to cure the problem? because if so, I might actually buy the subaru