Hate speed cameras

[Flynn]

Alright I have a question, why do so many of you hate speed cameras? Surely what you could be campaigning for is higher limits on some parts of roads because if you are going the limit then the speed cameras won't do a thing. I guess it is just seen as too politically incorrect so you take out your frustration on speed cameras instead.

[hansvonaxion]

A lot of reasons to hate speed cameras. I won't go into all of them, but just a few related to Australia's speed cameras.

1. When they were introduced they weren't verified by weights and measures, which they should have been under the law. When challenged on this in court the law was changed retroactively so they didn't have to reimburse all of the speeding tickets given out for the years they were being operated illegally.

2. When they were introduced they were being operated by local council employees even though the law stated that a police officer must be present when a violation cited (or whatever the wording may be). When challenged in court, they again changed the law retroactively so they wouldn't have to repay all the money they collected illegally.

3. To allow police to give you a ticket for speeding even though they have no clear evidence that you were speeding, just a photo of your car exceeding the limit, the law was changed putting the onus on the car owner to provide the police with the particulars of the person who was driving at that time i.e. do their job for them. We became guilty until proven innocent.

4. If the police were serious about reducing speeding, their targets would be for lower numbers of infringements, instead they announce targets for higher revenue from speed cameras.

5. Speed cameras are rarely placed at "black spots", more often than not being placed where they are likely to produce the highest number of infringements.

Oh, and one more. Theres no substitute for cops on the street. Ted Bundy was caught in a routine traffic stop.

[Flynn]

Why speed in the first place?

[NooDle]

Because they're always on deserted roads where the limits have just decreased from 70-50 and you're still doing 67 while you're cruising by.

Because they don't always prevent accidents, sometimes they're in illogical places and they cause accidents because everyone slows down for them (except one person who isn't paying attention)

[JakeRadden]

This topic has promise
/popcorn

Oh wait it's only 9am

/orange juice
/cereal

Anyway..
I can see why they hate speeding cameras so much; they're a function simply designed to generate income, packaged as something that will reduce speeding. They were unlawful when first introduced, and were introduced under false marketing.
At least all we've got to deal with around here are asshole cops who pull you over for doing 32 in a 30 zone then just let you squirm while they laugh their asses off at you (Then don't give you a ticket)

[hansvonaxion]

You must have missed the meaning for a couple of points there.

1. Equipment not verified mean they could read as speeding when in fact you weren't. There have been many cases which were so extraordinary it calls into question all infringements. There was one case where an old guy was supposedly clocked at a crazy speed, like 200 KILOMETRES PER HOUR in 60 zone, in pouring rain, in a car incapable of reaching that speed.

2. Again, unqualified personnel operating the machines, sleeping in a van instead of actually monitoring the situation is hardly ideal.

In both these cases the cameras were being operated not only irresponsibly, but illegally.

3. Since when is "guilty until proven innocent" a good way to police?

4. Isn't the point of speed cameras to reduce the number of accidents, injuries and deaths?

5. See #4

Theres no substitute for cops on the street.

One more example was a guy who was clocked at 20 KILOMETRES PER HOUR over the speed limit because he was doing 60 in a school zone, which is 40 on school days between certain times. Only problem was, it wasn't a school day. What about all the other people who just paid the ticket? That wouldn't have happened if he were pulled over by a patrol car.

And the police doing patrols have a lot more responsibilities than just catching speeding drivers. They cannot be replaced by cameras.

I never condoned speeding.

[NooDle]

Originally Posted by hansvonaxion

You must have missed the meaning for a couple of points there.

1. Equipment not verified mean they could read as speeding when in fact you weren't. There have been many cases which were so extraordinary it calls into question all infringements. There was one case where an old guy was supposedly clocked at a crazy speed, like 200 KILOMETRES PER HOUR in 60 zone, in pouring rain, in a car incapable of reaching that speed.

funny you should say this.
I read about a guy in an old Mini who was clocked in Brussels at some insane speed like 900 kph... seems the camera was a little off in calibration

[Flynn]

Originally Posted by hansvonaxion

I never condoned speeding.

Come on, we all like to open the throttle from time to time atleast

[hansvonaxion]

I think the guy asked for copy of the pic so he could show his friends and tell them how fast he was going. 900kph would be a cool photo to have when it comes time to sell your car on e-bay!

[JakeRadden]

Originally Posted by hansvonaxion

You must have missed the meaning for a couple of points there.
*snip*

If you were even talking to me, I know, but I was too busy getting my orange juice and cereal to write it all down

And yes, we all do like to crack the throttle sometimes... Occasionally, the mood just takes you, wherever you are. It's at these times I'm happy I have a semi-car-nut mom who understands these things.

[Flynn]

Damn I wish my mom or anyone in my family for that matter was into cars

[anti-net]

If you put a speed camera outside a school, or park, or a busy high-street, or an accident black spot - that's fine

But on an road with fuck all cars on it, and that's as safe as houses, or on a bloody hill! - That's not fine!

[hansvonaxion]

Originally Posted by JakeRadden

If you were even talking to me, I know, but I was too busy getting my orange juice and cereal to write it all down

And yes, we all do like to crack the throttle sometimes... Occasionally, the mood just takes you, wherever you are. It's at these times I'm happy I have a semi-car-nut mom who understands these things.

No I was talking to Flynn.
Don't know why.

[teeb]

Originally Posted by Flynn

Damn I wish my mom or anyone in my family for that matter was into cars

You are in Britain! Please, do not say 'mom'! That's grounds to have the Queen remove you from the country (using her bare hands, she loves the dirty work).

My problem with speed cameras is this. Many of them are placed in illogical places. I support them where they play a useful role : outside schools, hospitals, old people's homes, play areas, whatever. They are one useful method of hoping to reduce accidents at a blackspot (hint to councils : work out why it's a blackspot instead of plonking down a scamera though!).

However! Many of them are placed just to make money. And if a camera is placed at a location where most people are doing 35 in a 30 zone, surely this is a sign to review the speed limit, if nothing else?

Also scameras are replacing real policemen on our streets yadda yadda yadda.

[tigger]

Originally Posted by hansvonaxion

3. To allow police to give you a ticket for speeding even though they have no clear evidence that you were speeding, just a photo of your car exceeding the limit, the law was changed putting the onus on the car owner to provide the police with the particulars of the person who was driving at that time i.e. do their job for them. We became guilty until proven innocent.

4. If the police were serious about reducing speeding, their targets would be for lower numbers of infringements, instead they announce targets for higher revenue from speed cameras.

Those are the two biggest reasons why I hate them. You're presumed guilty, which is downright unconstitutional. That and it's purely a revenue generation scheme. Cops try and say that they somehow make roads safer or some other line, when all they're doing is handing out bullshit tickets.

Originally Posted by Flynn

Why speed in the first place?

Why not ? I'd say that often limits are too low. A prime example would be the I-70 turnpike between Topeka and Kansas City, Kansas. 6 lanes wide, freshly paved and almost exclusively straight ... and the speed limit is 70mph . The KHP won't even pull you over unless you're doing at least 80mph (and everyone goes at least that fast.) So why the hell is the limit so low?

[No Boss]

Originally Posted by Flynn

Alright I have a question, why do so many of you hate speed cameras? Surely what you could be campaigning for is higher limits on some parts of roads because if you are going the limit then the speed cameras won't do a thing. I guess it is just seen as too politically incorrect so you take out your frustration on speed cameras instead.

[klutch]

Originally Posted by Flynn

Why speed in the first place?

Originally Posted by Flynn

Come on, we all like to open the throttle from time to time atleast

What was the point of this thread again?

[argatoga]

Also I might add accident rates go up whenever speed camera are installed, as drivers pay more attention to their speed and looking out for cameras instead of driving on the road.

[No Boss]

Originally Posted by klutch

What was the point of this thread again?

Klutch, why is your sig like 40000 pixels tall???

[prizrak]

1) Removes discretion by police officials. Speed limits play on the laws of averages meaning that it does not take into account road conditions. Going 70+ on a snowy road is dangerous even if the speed limit is 70.
2) Concentration on only one aspect of driving. Speed cameras do not catch erratic drivers, drivers who go to slow, driver who drive dangerously (ever had someone merge right in front of you and hit the brakes?
3) There are legitimate reasons to go over the limit. For instance going downhil will make you stray over the limit, speeding up to overtake will as well. Again goes back to point +1 if I'm 5-10 over the limit a cop won't pull me over a speed camera will catch me at 1 over the limit. Until all cars are equiped with autopilots there is no way to maintain perfectly constant speed.