How come Porsche cars aren't subjected to eletronic speed limiting?

[edkwon]

It seems like all the major german manufacturers, Audi, VAG, BMW, MB all have their fastest cars limited to that 155 mph limit because of German law. How come Porsche's cars are exempt from that limit? Not that i'm complaining, i'm just wondering. A cursory search did not give me answers.

[the Interceptor]

Because they were clever enough not to sign the gentlemens agreement that limits all the others to 155 mph. 8)

[M3lover]

Originally Posted by edkwon

It seems like all the major german manufacturers, Audi, VAG, BMW, MB all have their fastest cars limited to that 155 mph limit because of German law. How come Porsche's cars are exempt from that limit? Not that i'm complaining, i'm just wondering. A cursory search did not give me answers.

As said, it isen't a law, merely an agreement, like the one in Japan that restricts output to no more than 280 hp (which is also slowly falling apart)

[edkwon]

Ah i see. I never understood what incentive the japanese automakers were given to honor their hp gentleman's agreement. Likewise, what motivated/forced the major german manufacturers to enter into a counterproductive agreement. Threats of additional taxes or penalties from the german govt?

[marcos_eirik]

Originally Posted by edkwon

Not that i'm complaining, i'm just wondering. A cursory search did not give me answers.

It's not law, it's just a gentleman's agreement, and artificially limiting a cars performance goes against Porsche's philosophy...

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by edkwon

Likewise, what motivated/forced the major german manufacturers to enter into a counterproductive agreement.

it´s not really counterproductive, just a small measure against the large number of people whose intelligence/driving skill is in an inverse relationship to the size of their wallet... and 250 km/h is perfectly fast enough for the autobahn...

As stated above, it would have been against porsche philosophy to artificially limit their cars. But the other manufacturers have been bringing out some cars that go beyond the limit, and if you want to, you can get your limiter taken off for a certain fee, which includes a proffessional driver training, or at least this is how Mercedes and BMW do it.

[Alok]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

it´s not really counterproductive, just a small measure against the large number of people whose intelligence/driving skill is in an inverse relationship to the size of their wallet... and 250 km/h is perfectly fast enough for the autobahn...

As stated above, it would have been against porsche philosophy to artificially limit their cars. But the other manufacturers have been bringing out some cars that go beyond the limit, and if you want to, you can get your limiter taken off for a certain fee, which includes a proffessional driver training, or at least this is how Mercedes and BMW do it.

An inside source tells me you arent obliged to take a professional driver training at Mercedes Benz, just 3000 or so euros to get the limiter fully removed.There are apparently two levels, one at 250kph and the other at 300kph.

[Viper007Bond]

Originally Posted by Alok

An inside source tells me you arent obliged to take a professional driver training at Mercedes Benz, just 3000 or so euros to get the limiter fully removed.There are apparently two levels, one at 250kph and the other at 300kph.

Or you save a ton of dough and do it aftermarket...

[edkwon]

Originally Posted by Alok

An inside source tells me you arent obliged to take a professional driver training at Mercedes Benz, just 3000 or so euros to get the limiter fully removed.There are apparently two levels, one at 250kph and the other at 300kph.

that's the answer i was looking for, its just another clever way to extort a little extra money on a car they already sold.

yes 150 mph is fast enough, but i like how they know some ppl really want the full 200 mph from their car (i.e. M5) and are prob willing to pay the $$ for it even tho theres little to no places they can legally drive at those speeds, or have the ability to control their cars at those speeds.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Alok

An inside source tells me you arent obliged to take a professional driver training at Mercedes Benz, just 3000 or so euros to get the limiter fully removed.There are apparently two levels, one at 250kph and the other at 300kph.

of course you´re not obliged, but when you have it taken off you pay for the driver training, whether or not you actually do it is up to you...

in my oppinion though (and I don´t care how rich you are), if you pay 3000 euros and you´re offered the opportunity to improve your driving skills, but are arrogant enough that you feel you don´t need it, you should be limited to driving cars with a 50 bhp power limit...

Originally Posted by Viper007Bond

Or you save a ton of dough and do it aftermarket...

well yes, you save like 2000 euros (at best) and completely void the warranty of your 150,000+ euro car...

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by edkwon

yes 150 mph is fast enough, but i like how they know some ppl really want the full 200 mph from their car (i.e. M5) and are prob willing to pay the $$ for it.

there´s tricks for most of these cars with which you can temporarily deactivate the limiter without going anywhere near a garage, but the very few people who know these tricks are also the sort of people who get fired for telling anyone about it...

[Karoug]

Or take the car to a tuner.. They'll be happy to remove the limiter for a few hundred Euros..

[Ford Prefect]

as I said above, it´s the wrong place to save... if I owned an M3 and someone is willing to tamper with my ecu for a few hundred bucks I´d be seriously worried...

edit: I´m also pretty sure you have to get the cars documents changed (in germany at least), and the TÜV stuff is quite expensive and complicated for a small company, so the price will be set accordingly...

[GraemeH]

Bear in mind that even though Mercedes' and BMWs are capable of reaching higher speeds, they are all designed with 155 in mind as the upper limit. They aren't designed to go quicker, even a 200+mph M5 has been designed and tested and had its parts costed down to perform well only up to 155 and not a bit over (it would be wasted money and time to do so).

So I wouldn't be so quick to have the limiter removed.

[edkwon]

Originally Posted by GraemeH

Bear in mind that even though Mercedes' and BMWs are capable of reaching higher speeds, they are all designed with 155 in mind as the upper limit. They aren't designed to go quicker, even a 200+mph M5 has been designed and tested and had its parts costed down to perform well only up to 155 and not a bit over (it would be wasted money and time to do so).

So I wouldn't be so quick to have the limiter removed.

so the issue is largely academic, then.

[The Chad]

Originally Posted by marcos_eirik

It's not law, it's just a gentleman's agreement, and artificially limiting a cars performance goes against Porsche's philosophy...

Not saying that Clarkson is right, but it seems that they may not electronically limit their cars, but they seem to mechanically limit them. The Cayman falls a little too perfectly into the Porsche range between Boxster and 911.

I do, to get back on topic, buy into the argument that they design the cars for 155mph so they don't have to redesign components to work at a higher speed by the off-chance the owner will go faster than that. Saves money, I'd imagine. And for normal cars, I can see why the limit makes sense.

But with ///M cars, AMGs, and other "tuner" or "hot" versions of the cars, since you pay a premium price for supposedly better components, they should be able to handle more than 155mph.

[MadCow809]

its not an law, just an agreement.


and you can ask the dealer/factory to remove the limiter for you if you want. At least in SA you can.

lots of M3 buyers simply ask BMW SA to remove the limiter for them, and many have gone 280+ , the cars are rock solid, it was built to do that kind of speed, hence the ridiculous pricetag. Same thing applies to Audi & Mercedes.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by The Chad

Not saying that Clarkson is right, but it seems that they may not electronically limit their cars, but they seem to mechanically limit them. The Cayman falls a little too perfectly into the Porsche range between Boxster and 911.

I do, to get back on topic, buy into the argument that they design the cars for 155mph so they don't have to redesign components to work at a higher speed by the off-chance the owner will go faster than that. Saves money, I'd imagine. And for normal cars, I can see why the limit makes sense.

But with ///M cars, AMGs, and other "tuner" or "hot" versions of the cars, since you pay a premium price for supposedly better components, they should be able to handle more than 155mph.

trust me, a german manufacturer wouldn´t offer taking the limiter off if they weren´t sure the car can handle it... If the car can (theoretically) do more than 250 km/h it will be built accordingly

As for the porsche bit: yes, the Cayman falls suspiciously well between the Boxster and 911. I mean Porsche did everything in their power to (succesfully) prevent the Alzen brothers from running their V10 Cayman in the 24hr race at the ring, because it would have looked bad if the Cayman had humiliated the pack of 911s... But they can easily keep the car in line with their range by adjusting the software accordingly, and even gather some reserves in the reliability department, so there´s no need to do anything mechanically...

[Karoug]

^I agree, if someone do take the limiter off and the car falls to pieces, the manufacturer is pretty screwed..

[DTMracer]

Well, being an AMG owner, I can say that there is an option on some AMG cars for the speed limiter to be raised. RAISED, not completely speed unlimited, because according to one of the technicians I spoke to they said that the tyres won't be safe if they completely removed the speed restrictions.

My friend's M3 has had the speed limiter removed, and it certainly hasn't fallen to bits yet with some well chosen, simple, effective upgrades.