Jay Leno Review Of SSC Ultimate Aero

[Meio]

Originally Posted by BlaRo

Golly, you make that sound like a bad thing.

Pray tell, what engine does the Ultima have? Or for that matter, any Noble?

I'm just suggesting that a space frame chassis with a highly modified SBC in the back would be a massive ripoff at $650,000.

When you consider an MT900S is about half that price and Mosler have managed to put together a composite monocoque; $300,000 is a lot to pay for a few extra engine mods and a simpler chassis.

If you consider that the Ultima GTR is a space frame with a heavily tweaked SBC in the back, and you can have a top-spec one on the road in the US with not too much fuss for probably about $150,000, then you must admit Half a million is an absolute fortune for a slightly nicer interior, some turbos, and the bragging rights of carbon fibre bodywork... oh and 25mph if you can find the road to use it.

[BlaRo]

Originally Posted by Meio

I'm just suggesting that a space frame chassis with a highly modified SBC in the back would be a massive ripoff at $650,000.

When you consider an MT900S is about half that price and Mosler have managed to put together a composite monocoque; $300,000 is a lot to pay for a few extra engine mods and a simpler chassis.

If you consider that the Ultima GTR is a space frame with a heavily tweaked SBC in the back, and you can have a top-spec one on the road in the US with not too much fuss for probably about $150,000, then you must admit Half a million is an absolute fortune for a slightly nicer interior, some turbos, and the bragging rights of carbon fibre bodywork... oh and 25mph if you can find the road to use it.

It's not a Corvette engine. They only used a heavily-modified Corvette Racing motor for the prototype, and the video doesn't specify where the block comes from specifically. My guess is that it's based on a C6R design but is built in-house, which is still far more impressive than the Ultima.

If that's the argument, then what's the point of buying any fast car? What's the point of a Ferrari when you can build a Factory Five MkIV Coupe for about $15k and be able to do 0-60 in 4.3 seconds? And etc. Why do people still buy Veyrons? You can always find something that's cheaper and just as fast, if not faster...but some people have different tastes and the money to exhibit them, so that's why cars like this exist.

And just for the record, I think the Aero, the Ultima, the MT900, and the Veyron are all staggeringly hideous.

[Lupin_IV]

This is America, we have racetracks built to support constant high speed where you can run 250+ mph until the fuel runs out without getting permission to use a manufacturer's private test track.

[Peter3hg]

Originally Posted by Lupin_IV

This is America, we have racetracks built to support constant high speed where you can run 250+ mph until the fuel runs out without getting permission to use a manufacturer's private test track.

I think you'll find most countries do. For example we have the Rockingham Speedway which has held CART races. We even had the first Oval track in the world back in 1907.

[Lupin_IV]

Most countries have ovals, yes, but your example of England's Rockingham Speedway has 8º of banking, whereas the straightaways have that much banking at North Carolina's Rockingham Speedway.
"The Rock" isn't really a fast track in terms of American tracks, but I just think it's neat that there are two major oval tracks with the same name.

[Meio]

Originally Posted by BlaRo

It's not a Corvette engine. They only used a heavily-modified Corvette Racing motor for the prototype, and the video doesn't specify where the block comes from specifically.

I wasn't sure, that's why I was asking.

Originally Posted by BlaRo

My guess is that it's based on a C6R design but is built in-house, which is still far more impressive than the Ultima.

So an engine which is a further modified version of a modified SBC is not an SBC? Huh?

http://www.corvetteracing.com/cars/c6r/engine.shtml

Originally Posted by BlaRo

What's the point of a Ferrari when you can build a Factory Five MkIV Coupe for about $15k and be able to do 0-60 in 4.3 seconds? And etc.

See now that makes perfect sense to me.

Originally Posted by BlaRo

Why do people still buy Veyrons?

You tell me. So they can quote pointless things at you all day, "blahblah... 16 cylinders... 1000bhp... gazzilion radiators...."?

Originally Posted by BlaRo

You can always find something that's cheaper and just as fast, if not faster...but some people have different tastes and the money to exhibit them, so that's why cars like this exist.

I'll use my clothing analogy from the TVR in a barn thread. So what you're saying is that the Ultimate Aero exists so that the handful of people that might be prepared to and allowed to stump up the small fortune for one are doing so for the same reasons that someone might pay $500 for some limited edition signature training shoes. Whereas a real athlete might find that for their own personal comfort and biomechanics they can achieve the best results with a certain pair of $30 Hi-Tecs?
I would say that in this sector of road/race GT/GT inspired cars a true enthusiast would be acting like a racing driver and be following the speed. So which is quickest stock? Anything else is just waffle for posers.

[prizrak]

Originally Posted by BlaRo

If that's the argument, then what's the point of buying any fast car? What's the point of a Ferrari when you can build a Factory Five MkIV Coupe for about $15k and be able to do 0-60 in 4.3 seconds? And etc. Why do people still buy Veyrons? You can always find something that's cheaper and just as fast, if not faster...but some people have different tastes and the money to exhibit them, so that's why cars like this exist.

Same reason your g/f might go with Prada over a no name bag that can hold just as much stuff.

It's a combination of things
1)Name - I can tell anyone that I drive a Ferrari and they know what I'm driving, if I tell someone I have an Ultimate they will think I drive a Nissan Altima or ask "ultimate what?".
2)Image (pussy magnetism) - you will get a lot more positive attention in a Ferrari/Bugatti/w/e
3)Total package - Ferrari, Lambo, Veyron, etc.. All have alot more to offer than simple speed. You will have SatNav (GPS), bluetooth hookup for your phone, probably some iPod/MP3 player connector/power everything/expensive finish on materials/care package/etc...
4)Anyone can drive them fast - You can say all you want about ABS, ESP and TC systems detracting from a driving experience but a simple fact is that all these systems will allow an inexperienced driver to feel good about him/herself.

Veyron specifically was designed to be a comfortable, safe and extremely high speed cruiser.

To contrast, why do people buy iPods? There are plenty of MP3 players out there with more/better features and for less or same money. They may or may not be as attractive but general will be of the same (if not better) quality. Yet iPod is something like 65% of the market for one simple reason, you buy what you know. You can't buy something you don't know exists and outside of the car enthusiast community all these other cars are basically unknown.

[TomCat]

Originally Posted by petarkb

Unlike your imaginary sentient robot, I have cruelty and imagination. Therefore, I'll greatly enjoy your attempts at trying to weasel away from this inadequate comparison.

No, as intelligence isn't quantifiable or verifiable. Therefore, such an award would be meaningless. Realizing this is the difference between a rational human and a typing monkey.

Obviously you misunderstood what I meant by intelligence. I'm not talking about someone handing you a photocopied certificate because they think you're smart. I'm talking about being... I don't know, an undefeated Jeopardy champion, or something along those lines.

You're well entitled to your opinion. If you've never felt an ounce of price for someone else, then so be it. No one can force you to experience a natural human emotion.

But maybe you're right about it being an American cultural thing. Although I would hope you're not. I suppose we Americans like to see ourselves as members of a society that works for the greater whole. We all work, providing services to our fellow members, which earns us money which we spend on products and services which support other people, and we pay taxes which go to a government of elected officials who then spend the money on us in an attempt to make the society stronger and better. So when a fellow member of our little society accomplishes something great, we are truly happy for them, maybe even proud of them. That's just the way I see it and IMHO there is nothing wrong with it. I see no reason to climb onto a high horse, look down upon everyone else, and scoff like a pretentious jerk. But that's just me.

As for the SSC Aero, I don't feel any pride over the car. It's an ultra-low production, purpose-built, street legal race car. I think it's cool, but it's nothing that I would get all patriotic and nationalistic over. It's just a car.

[BlaRo]

Originally Posted by Meio

So an engine which is a further modified version of a modified SBC is not an SBC? Huh?

http://www.corvetteracing.com/cars/c6r/engine.shtml
If it's modified enough...that's like me saying "hey, it's got a Buick engine!" every time somebody mentions a Rover V8. It becomes a moot point after a while.

See now that makes perfect sense to me.

Same here.

I'll use my clothing analogy from the TVR in a barn thread. So what you're saying is that the Ultimate Aero exists so that the handful of people that might be prepared to and allowed to stump up the small fortune for one are doing so for the same reasons that someone might pay $500 for some limited edition signature training shoes. Whereas a real athlete might find that for their own personal comfort and biomechanics they can achieve the best results with a certain pair of $30 Hi-Tecs?

Precisely. There's no knowing what the rich will do; if you have the means and you like a car over another, for whatever reason (it looks better, has a stronger X-factor, you can pull more teen prozzies with it, etc.) then you'll spring for the SSC over, say, a F430, Gallardo, etc.

Case in point.

[Hercules286]

Originally Posted by TomCat

You're well entitled to your opinion. If you've never felt an ounce of price for someone else, then so be it. No one can force you to experience a natural human emotion.

While your last sentence is perfectly correct, you're wrong in assuming I've never felt pride in others. When I was younger, I've felt pride over our football team winning, over historical achievements of Bulgarian people, over achievements of my family members. But then I realized that by taking pride in something, I'm also committing myself to things I didn't have, don't have and won't have any control over.

Then, I realized I can be happy about things without feeling proud of them, which is where I am now.

But maybe you're right about it being an American cultural thing. Although I would hope you're not. I suppose we Americans like to see ourselves as members of a society that works for the greater whole. We all work, providing services to our fellow members, which earns us money which we spend on products and services which support other people, and we pay taxes which go to a government of elected officials who then spend the money on us in an attempt to make the society stronger and better. So when a fellow member of our little society accomplishes something great, we are truly happy for them, maybe even proud of them. That's just the way I see it and IMHO there is nothing wrong with it.

I don't understand how doing your part in society translates to supercars being made. Society doesn't like them, and that shows in legislature. (height of bumpers, no pop-up headlamps, same speed limits for everything, strict emission control for low-volume cars, etc.) Sorry, I just read what you wrote below this:

As for the SSC Aero, I don't feel any pride over the car. It's an ultra-low production, purpose-built, street legal race car. I think it's cool, but it's nothing that I would get all patriotic and nationalistic over. It's just a car.

Maybe it's just the "transition", but alot of people (me included) were thinking just like you about society and pride and all that in Bulgaria, circa 1990. Currently, people are divided in two groups:
1) People who are sceptical about everything society and state-related
2) People who still believe society should be what you're describing

I have no desire to be in group 2, seeing as they have anger fits all the time, because reality doesn't match their fluffy model. That's not healthy, man.



Yes, I realize that is culture-specific for my culture.

I see no reason to climb onto a high horse, look down upon everyone else, and scoff like a pretentious jerk. But that's just me.

Did I sound like a pretentious jerk? There's a notion that's appears to be very strong on this forum, that if you're putting something down, you're putting yourself above it. So, if you say "the Bugatti Veyron has an ugly interior"(which it does), it means that you have sophisticated taste and if presented with the task, you could make a better interior yourself, or hire designers and craftsmen and whip them until they make something truly beautiful. Or that you currently drive a car with a spectacular interior. Anyway,

NO. When I say "the Bugatti Veyron has an ugly interior" it only means that *I think* the Bugatti Veyron has an ugly interior. It doesn't mean I don't like the car, it doesn't mean I wouldn't drive it, it doesn't mean I wouldn't buy it if I had the cash. (though I wouldn't. But you didn't know that until just now.)

Also, I'd like to take the opportunity to say that things written on internet forums don't carry much weight, the ones I've written included.

[MacGuffin]

No traction control, no ABS. Now let's see how long it takes for the first celebrities to crash one

But seriously. From what they showed and said, one has to believe it's a nice car, probably a lot of fun under controlled conditions but not suitable for daily driving. Therefore I wouldn't say it competes with the Bugatti Veyron (which will always be in a league of its own) but with the Koenigsegg.

Now the only thing it has to prove is that it isn't a pretentious diva that breaks down all the time. At some point Jay said that it eventually WILL get too hot and has to cool down a moment.

By the way: Am I the only one who thinks that Leno pointed out a lot more than necessary, that it is an all American car, made in America, made by Americans all alone and how proud he is of it as an American? Do I spot a latent inferiority complex there?

Maybe this popped up already in the previous discussion but frankly I don't bother reading 7 pages before posting my opinion

[BlaRo]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

By the way: Am I the only one who thinks that Leno pointed out a lot more than necessary, that it is an all American car, made in America, made by Americans all alone and how proud he is of it as an American? Do I spot a latent inferiority complex there?

Recession, war, declines in the manufacturing sector, the dollar worth less than Monopoly money? Not exactly hard to figure out.

Then again, we've always been that ridiculously patriotic, even moreso in the good times. It's our culture.

[MacGuffin]

Well, I only know that when German TV presenters would start talking that way, our neighbours would get very nervous *lol*

And if I may add to my post from above: I find it extremely strange when somebody's talking about a car being a "driver's car", while doing 65 mph on an interstate highway

[Meio]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

No traction control, no ABS. Now let's see how long it takes for the first celebrities to crash one

You know how many Aeros are slated for production right? My guess is that the oli sheikhs will have them locked up in their museums next to their Veyrons only to come out for the local equivalent of Goodwood.

[MacGuffin]

Originally Posted by Meio

You know how many Aeros are slated for production right? My guess is that the oli sheikhs will have them locked up in their museums next to their Veyrons only to come out for the local equivalent of Goodwood.

Yes, you're probably right with that.

And if they drive in it, they will drive slow, to not risk crashing it. Chances are high, that if you ever see an Aero or a Koenigsegg, it will be when you overtake it, because the owner is driving veeeery carefully

However, since the Veyron's speed is so easily accessible and subjectively safe to use, I believe that at least a good portion of Veyron owners will actually drive it - and drive it fast.

At least where there is no speed limit, like for examples 10 minutes away from my house

[prizrak]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

At least where there is no speed limit, like for examples 10 minutes away from my house

The question is how quickly will you run out of Autobahn
Also largest speeding ticket recorded was given to a Koeniggsegg in TX

[TomCat]

Originally Posted by petarkb

Maybe it's just the "transition", but alot of people (me included) were thinking just like you about society and pride and all that in Bulgaria, circa 1990. Currently, people are divided in two groups:
1) People who are sceptical about everything society and state-related
2) People who still believe society should be what you're describing

I have no desire to be in group 2, seeing as they have anger fits all the time, because reality doesn't match their fluffy model. That's not healthy, man.

It's not about matching a fluffy model. Most Americans on this board probably never think of themselves as contributing to society by flipping burgers at McDonalds. But the truth is, you are. Anyone to works, providing any sort of service, and pays taxes, is contributing to their society. I look at the way people are here in America and realize most people are greedy and just want to do the least amount of work possible for the most amount of money possible. That is, when they're not suing corporations for brewing coffee too hot or complaining because they like the sound of their own voice.

Originally Posted by petarkb

Did I sound like a pretentious jerk?

Just a tad. Remarks like:

"You sound very irrational, like most Americans when they're talking about pride and country. I won't hold it against you, as it's in your culture, but I'm not impressed."
"How can you say you're a rational human being and be proud of things you weren't responsible for?"
"I'll greatly enjoy your attempts at trying to weasel away from this inadequate comparison."
"Realizing this is the difference between a rational human and a typing monkey."

That does come off as pretentious, even if you weren't trying to be. I know it's just your opinion, but trying to change all the above quotes to say "I think" or "In my opinion" just doesn't work. You phrase things so anyone who dares disagree with you is an "irrational typing monkey".

[TomCat]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

No traction control, no ABS. Now let's see how long it takes for the first celebrities to crash one

Possibly. But I think people get a false sense of security when they drive a car with numerous safety features. Like all these high end Audi Quattros I see crashed on the internet on wet roads. They get behind the wheel and suddenly think they're Michael Schumacher and nothing can get in their way. Except that darn tree that always jumps out in front of them.

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

By the way: Am I the only one who thinks that Leno pointed out a lot more than necessary, that it is an all American car, made in America, made by Americans all alone and how proud he is of it as an American? Do I spot a latent inferiority complex there?

I chalk it up to being a selling point of the car, just like the Top Speed Record. They keep mentioning it, because it's what separates the car from others like it.

[MacGuffin]

Originally Posted by prizrak

The question is how quickly will you run out of Autobahn

Well, I can drive about 100 km straight before the first speed limit accurs. And then I can turn around and drive back the same way

Also largest speeding ticket recorded was given to a Koeniggsegg in TX

I wonder how they measured it... Are any more details known about it or is it just an urban legend?

[prizrak]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

Well, I can drive about 100 km straight before the first speed limit accurs. And then I can turn around and drive back the same way

Yeah but at 257MPH that's what like 5 minutes

I wonder how they measured it... Are any more details known about it or is it just an urban legend?

Top Gear mentioned it at some point they said it was 242mph. I suspect it was measured with a regular police radar.