Little brake help

[prizrak]

Look into Hawk pads, I have their HPS ones, they are very popular with alot of my tuner friends as well.

[Nocturnal]

While Spectre's advice is good, I'd respectfully disagree with his recommendations for your use.

Again, I'd have to reinforce that for effective braking, you'd need to swap tyres. I dare say that your OEM brake set-up is more than capable of locking the wheels up, and is potentially under-servo'd so they require more pressure on the pedal to get them to bite. All that will happen as you upgrade your brakes is that your tyres will become more and more susceptible to losing traction under braking. Just look at the recent TG episode with the Avantime they were modifying. Huge AP brakes that even over-compensated for Toyo R888s. Huge waste of money.

Swapping the hoses for braided items is subjective. In some cases it will help reduce that 'spongey' feel, in others it will do nothing. I'll be doing it on mine purely b/c the OEM lines are stretched at full-lock, though I have first-hand experience that on MX5s it makes no difference to brake feel. For the price of some hoses, you might as well try it. Go for decent-quality though, I've seen some very shoddy s/s lines. I'd stick with Goodridge for this.

Pads is something I'd definitely upgrade, but be careful what you buy. You can't just throw in some EBC Redstuffs and expect your brakes to work better. The Redstuffs are a specific track pad, and they'll only work well from higher temperatures than you're likely to achieve on the road (...and I found they were pretty poor too even on track). The newer-age Yellow stuffs aren't bad as they'll work from cold, up to a decent heat so make for good road pads and OK-ish track pads. The Greenstuffs I found absolutely useless, burned through very quickly and they were dusty as hell. I use Axxis Ultimates now and they're fantastic.

Rotors - Don't bother. You're effectively wasting your time here.

Calipers - Again, don't bother.

Fluid - I used to run Dot4, then upgraded to Dot5.1 and now use super blue. I'd recommend them in that order really, with super-blue being the best. For a road car though, I'd go for either Dot4 or Dot5.1.

Around 6 months ago, I was looking at all kinds of upgrades for my brakes, wanting some 'bling' to go with the deep-dish wheels which were revealing my puny brakes. I spoke to some serious track-racers who recommended the set-up I now use, and it's fantastic. Best of all, it's the cheapest thing I could've done. Try re-conditioning all the brake parts you have now and replace with OEM stuff. If you're still not happy, then upgrade. I think you'd be surprised at how good your OEM brakes are when everything is working as it should.

[Labcoatguy]

I would add another vote for Axxis Ultimates for street use. They had incredible bite on my stock MR2 rotors, really throwing me into my seatbelt in even moderate-pressure braking (without locking them up unless I completely slammed on them). The order of upgrades should go something like: first tires, then pads, lines, rotors, and only then worry about calipers; depending on the car some of those can be swapped around. In my case, the stock lines were behaving okay, and the ventilated blank (no slots, holes, or dimples) rotors were more than enough, so I stopped at upgraded pads.

[Spectre]

FYI, the original Redstuff pads were not what I was thinking of. They recently came out with Redstuff Ceramics, which is what I had in mind - and they're actually usable on the street. The original Redstuffs nobody I know was happy with.

Also, Greenstuffs have different formulations for different applications, so what gets chewed up fast on a Miata may be different from the formulation they sell for my Jags.

He has to replace his front rotors anyway, and the price diff for better rotors isn't significant.

[NecroJoe]

Originally Posted by Spectre

He has to replace his front rotors anyway, and the price diff for better rotors isn't significant.

That's actually my motivation for the upgrades. I mean, I'm already going to have to replace 4 rotors and 4 pads, so as long as I'm spending the money on parts and I've already got it up on the lift (which isn't easy to find the time/place to do) I'm wanting to step up.

Unfortunately with tires, the only way I could go any more performance orientated than what I have, I'd need to buy another set of steel wheels or something with all season tires...then I'd be driving around for 3 months of the year with horribly ugly wheels, or I'd have to remove and remount the tires which...obviously isn't the best scenario. Plus, i really like my wheels. I keep looking at other wheels but the only ones I like are waaay too expensive.

A guy I know with an Evo 8 just got back from a track day-type thing. He's been driving there for a couple of months, and his times have all been consistent. Last week, he swapped out his brake lines, and he was now getting 10-15 seconds off his "standard" 3-mile times. So, that's sounding like a reasonable performance increase...

So, all things being equal, which do you think would have more of an effect: upgraded rotors, or upgraded pads?

Lastly, if I go with a larger sized rotor, do I need calipers "arched" for a larger radius, or would that small of an increase not make a difference? And, if I'm keeping my calipers...what's a good paint for brake calipers? :-p (Gotta get some bling out of this project Don't worry, just going black.)

[Suedschleife]

Have to agree with Nocturnal's advice.

Calipers work with different sized rotors to some extent, the range is very small however. Not sure why you want heavier rotors.

Longest lasting color is probably powder coating, there's also special caliper paint that seems to work well. I seen good results with normal engine paint and Rust-oleumon if you want a budget solution. I haven't seen any painted calipers that didn't discolor after heavy track use, including the ones painted by the manufacturer.

[NecroJoe]

Originally Posted by Suedschleife

I haven't seen any painted calipers that didn't discolor after heavy track use, including the ones painted by the manufacturer.

Which is exactly why I don't want to replace them if I don't have to...as I won't be doing any track racing. It's a 2.5Lv6 FWD automatic *laughs* I'd rather borrow my friends Ford Ranger. At least his 2.5 4-banger is RWD and a manual. :-p

As for the "heavier rotors" bit...I held the rotors in my hands that the local shop shop would install when I went in initially for a price quote for just the labor. I was in an Auto Zone later than day, and even their stocked mildly-more "upgraded" rotors felt lighter.

[Nocturnal]

Originally Posted by Spectre

FYI, the original Redstuff pads were not what I was thinking of. They recently came out with Redstuff Ceramics, which is what I had in mind - and they're actually usable on the street. The original Redstuffs nobody I know was happy with.

Fair enough, it would make sense to be honest. The 'new' yellowstuff compound has been out for well over a year now, so it's about time they released the redstuff too. As you say, the older ones were bloody awful!

Also, Greenstuffs have different formulations for different applications, so what gets chewed up fast on a Miata may be different from the formulation they sell for my Jags.

True, and worth bearing in mind. I've only ever experienced the Greenstuffs on small, light cars (Miata, CRX, MR2...Celica GT-Four was the heaviest) and they've all been horrendous. But on a heavier car they may well be alright.

A guy I know with an Evo 8 just got back from a track day-type thing. He's been driving there for a couple of months, and his times have all been consistent. Last week, he swapped out his brake lines, and he was now getting 10-15 seconds off his "standard" 3-mile times. So, that's sounding like a reasonable performance increase...

That's very dubious information, and I dare say other factors will have played a much bigger part in those times than his braided lines (atmospheric temps, driver competency for other competitors, a recent service...). Not even cut-slicks will knock that kind of time from a short course like that, I'd be surprised if braided lines meant even 0.5sec difference on a good day.

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by NecroJoe

So, all things being equal, which do you think would have more of an effect: upgraded rotors, or upgraded pads?

Lastly, if I go with a larger sized rotor, do I need calipers "arched" for a larger radius, or would that small of an increase not make a difference? And, if I'm keeping my calipers...what's a good paint for brake calipers? :-p (Gotta get some bling out of this project Don't worry, just going black.)

Upgraded pads, but I'd get them as a set. Thing is, I would keep the stock rotor diameter and NOT go for a Big Brake type upgrade.

[NecroJoe]

So...(after a short financial "situation") I'm finally getting the brake work done (no, I haven't put THAT many miles on the old brakes...

Anywho, I ended up getting the Goodridge brake lines, and the EBC slotted and dimpled rotors and EBC pads.

The guy who's installing them just called me, and told me he's not thrilled with the install...
1) Baseball card-in-the-spokes type sound when brakes are applied, which dissipates a little when they are warmed up a bit. He's not sure if that's a characteristic of this type of rotor as he's never installed this type, or this brand before.
2) Could the rotors been warped from either being stored wrong, or shipped UPS? He mentioned the pedal-feel feels like they/one of them may be warped.

[Spectre]

1: This is somewhat normal but will decrease as the brakes bed in.

2: Yes, it is possible for them to be warped from improper storage or crappy shipment.

[NecroJoe]

Originally Posted by Spectre

1: This is somewhat normal but will decrease as the brakes bed in.

2: Yes, it is possible for them to be warped from improper storage or crappy shipment.

Gotcha. On the #1, Is this something that's due to the slotted/dimpled rotors, or the pads?

And #2...shit.

[Spectre]

1 is due to the slotted rotors, mostly.