The General Motorbikers Discussion Thread

[Ottobon]

I've heard that before, and I'm happy you love your Hondas, but for me, now, here, I try to avoid them because something about them reminds me of something i didn't like in my past experiences. My opinion may be unjustified in some circumstances, but i can't just change it like a flip of a switch.

Don't hold it against me just because i may disagree on some accounts. Maybe i'm a weirdo but i kind of enjoy disagreeing on this issue, as there really is some weird little thing about the way Honda builds their engines that seems too Japanese for me. Maybe its just the huge size difference between the primary pipes and the main pipe, who knows? I'd even be willing to say that some of them sounds fairly good in the right conditions, but if it was a Rock-band then it would somehow not be my style of music, its just that simple. Hell I'll even give you ammo and admit that i rather like mid 90s industrial metal-techno crap from Videogames, so there, now you can just question my taste in music whenever, if ever, i Dis a Honda!

[BlaRo]

Originally Posted by Ottobon

I've heard that before, and I'm happy you love your Hondas, but for me, now, here, I try to avoid them because something about them reminds me of something i didn't like in my past experiences. My opinion may be unjustified in some circumstances, but i can't just change it like a flip of a switch.

Don't hold it against me just because i may disagree on some accounts. Maybe i'm a weirdo but i kind of enjoy disagreeing on this issue, as there really is some weird little thing about the way Honda builds their engines that seems too Japanese for me. Maybe its just the huge size difference between the primary pipes and the main pipe, who knows? I'd even be willing to say that some of them sounds fairly good in the right conditions, but if it was a Rock-band then it would somehow not be my style of music, its just that simple. Hell I'll even give you ammo and admit that i rather like mid 90s industrial metal-techno crap from Videogames, so there, now you can just question my taste in music whenever, if ever, i Dis a Honda!

Did a Honda Super Cub run over a beloved pet from your childhood or something?

[Ottobon]

Originally Posted by BlaRo

Did a Honda Super Cub run over a beloved pet from your childhood or something?

Hmm no, but on that Note of Hondas+Pets+that link you shared

Is it just me or do these two photos go togethor in your mind?

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by Ottobon

I've heard that before, and I'm happy you love your Hondas, but for me, now, here, I try to avoid them because something about them reminds me of something i didn't like in my past experiences. My opinion may be unjustified in some circumstances, but i can't just change it like a flip of a switch.

Don't hold it against me just because i may disagree on some accounts. Maybe i'm a weirdo but i kind of enjoy disagreeing on this issue, as there really is some weird little thing about the way Honda builds their engines that seems too Japanese for me. Maybe its just the huge size difference between the primary pipes and the main pipe, who knows? I'd even be willing to say that some of them sounds fairly good in the right conditions, but if it was a Rock-band then it would somehow not be my style of music, its just that simple. Hell I'll even give you ammo and admit that i rather like mid 90s industrial metal-techno crap from Videogames, so there, now you can just question my taste in music whenever, if ever, i Dis a Honda!

http://noda-kenichi.hp.infoseek.co.jp/sound/rc166.wav
http://www.honda.co.jp/SoundofHonda/...S02/rc166.html

[Spectre]

Saw this commercial on TV tonight, the first Honda motorcycle ad I've seen on a non-motorsports channel. It's pretty good.

+ YouTube Video

And, the Greatest Ever Motorcycle - worth watching the destruction testing sessions.

+ YouTube Video

I mention this because I just found out that Honda *just* sold Super Cub number 60,000,000 back in May. That's not a typo. That really is sixty million bikes of just one basic type!

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/05/honda-sells-its.html

[Blind_Io]

Originally Posted by Spectre

Honda bikes, with few exceptions, are nothing like their automotive cousins. Far more interesting, fun to operate, and, where not choked by local market noise restrictions, sound *fantastic*. Well, except for the V4s, which are all stuck with that flat drone of an exhaust note.

The story is that the only reason Honda builds cars, lawnmowers and watercraft is to fund their motorcycle and racing divisions.

I disagree. I think my V4 has a fantastic exhaust note. Granted, the stock pipes don't show off the sound as well as some of the aftermarket pipes (or modifying the baffles on the stock pipes), but I find the V4 note to me much nicer sounding than a typical V-Twin. It has a much smoother sound but without loosing the resonance.

I love riding my bike through tunnels, just so I can hear the exhaust.

[Jon]

I was playing around with a ZX9R Ninja today, he said i could ride it around some quiet streets but i knew i'd probably crash it so didn't (bit of a step up from my 125!). The sound that thing makes is awesome! This is the closest i've been to a superbike so far..

[KaJuN]

Originally Posted by Spectre

What show is that from? I must see the full version.

[Spectre]

I think it's from a Brit show called "The Greatest". They've done things like "The Greatest Motorcycle," "The Greatest Car" and "The Greatest Infantry Rifle."

[BlaRo]

Originally Posted by KaJuN

What show is that from? I must see the full version.

Just leave the check in the mail.

[Ottobon]

Originally Posted by Blind_Io

I disagree. I think my V4 has a fantastic exhaust note. Granted, the stock pipes don't show off the sound as well as some of the aftermarket pipes (or modifying the baffles on the stock pipes), but I find the V4 note to me much nicer sounding than a typical V-Twin. It has a much smoother sound but without loosing the resonance.

I love riding my bike through tunnels, just so I can hear the exhaust.

I have to agree with Him that some Honda V4s are rather nice, no production Honda i've heard is Giuseppe Busso good, but they can be neat. And just FYI i used to think i like smooth sounds until i actually lived with a car that had completely broken exhaust and a burly V6 . I don't think anybody thinks they want a rough sounding engine, but if the rest of the engine sounds good then its like adding chunks of Lime to a good Gin-Tonic, aka i can't live without it.




Spectre:I know the RC166 sounds awesome, but thats a race bike and probably not limited to cost-saving bull-crap like the regular Honda bikes are. Find a rockstar atleast as cool as Billy Gibbons (or Billy Gibbons) posing next to a Honda and ill shut-up about the way they sound like melodic rubber bands.

PS: from same episode as The Honda Cub destruction

+ YouTube Video

What i suppose i mean by too Japanese is the same issue as the current gen GT-R has, its too sadate at safe speeds, i have a feeling (feel free to tell me if i'm wrong) that you can hardly cruise along in a straigh line between 35-45 mph on one of those CBs and actually enjoy the experience. In that sense it fails. Whats the point of technical progress if you can't have atleast as much fun at the same speeds slower-older vehicles travel at. This may be were you and I differ, but personally i need to be able to feel like I'm tearing the car/bikes brains out at a without having to go more then 45mph, in a straight line, or i get bored.

[Jon]

My ears are killing me. I've just come back from a brisk ride and I wear a balaclava but clearly it doesn't work too well. Anyone know of any tricks to keeping your ears warmer? I was only riding for about 2 hours at 30/40mph occasionally 50/60mph.. I was hoping to go on a sizeable trip in August.

Also, sometimes my bike refuses to change gear. Like i'll downshift but it won't do anything, i'll let the clutch out and it'll click it down the gear as i release the clutch slowly. It's in warranty so i'm not too fussed, i just want to know if anyone else has had similar problems really and what it turned out to be? Or even if it's something i can just do myself?

[Spectre]

Your shift dogs may be wearing a bit, though it's not unusual to have to roll the rear wheel to get into a gear at a light.

As for the ears... considered wearing a full-face helmet with decent neck curtains?

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by Ottobon

Spectre:I know the RC166 sounds awesome, but thats a race bike and probably not limited to cost-saving bull-crap like the regular Honda bikes are. Find a rockstar atleast as cool as Billy Gibbons (or Billy Gibbons) posing next to a Honda and ill shut-up about the way they sound like melodic rubber bands.

PS: from same episode as The Honda Cub destruction

What i suppose i mean by too Japanese is the same issue as the current gen GT-R has, its too sadate at safe speeds, i have a feeling (feel free to tell me if i'm wrong) that you can hardly cruise along in a straigh line between 35-45 mph on one of those CBs and actually enjoy the experience. In that sense it fails. Whats the point of technical progress if you can't have atleast as much fun at the same speeds slower-older vehicles travel at. This may be were you and I differ, but personally i need to be able to feel like I'm tearing the car/bikes brains out at a without having to go more then 45mph, in a straight line, or i get bored.

Sorry, but if that's the case, then you're an idiot. If it feels like the thing's going to fall apart below 45mph, it's probably not something you should be riding. And yes, you can and do enjoy the experience at low speeds on a CB.

As for the RC166 being a fluke for Honda... Well, Honda built a road going version, called the CBX1000.

+ YouTube Video

+ YouTube Video

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Sounds, well, pretty much like the RC166.

And Billy Gibbons, with the rest of ZZ Top? Yeah... they're endorsing Honda these days:

http://jalopnik.com/cars/ads%5Cpromo...unk-149447.php

So, you pretty much fail on all counts. I say again - Honda bikes bear little resemblance to their automotive cousins in any respect. And you still have no grounds for comment until you are a rider. Sorry.

[Ottobon]

I didn't say anything about falling apart at 45mph, or shaking, or being unstable. I mean the way the vehicle responds to inputs, i want it to feel like a party on wheels with drunken women being shagged and Billy Gibbons playing live.

If its okay can we step back, and may i ask, is this actually angering you?, or are you just being defensive for the hell of it, because I'm just telling it like it is for fun, not to be a winner or looser/failure whatever. Just saying, no need to get personal, unless for some reason insulting Honda is like insulting your mother, in which case just say so.

PS:I didn't say the RC166 was a FLUKE, its just that all the dissections of Honda heads i've seen seem to show that they take the easier route more so then the better route when it comes to machining the ports.

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by Ottobon

I didn't say anything about falling apart at 45mph, or shaking, or being unstable. I mean the way the vehicle responds to inputs, i want it to feel like a party on wheels with drunken women being shagged and Billy Gibbons playing live.

If its okay can we step back, and may i ask, is this actually angering you?, or are you just being defensive for the hell of it, because I'm just telling it like it is for fun, not to be a winner or looser/failure whatever.

PS:I didn't say the RC166 was a FLUKE, its just that all the dissections of Honda heads i've seen seem to show that they take the easier route more so then the better route when it comes to machining the ports.

Yes, you are starting to irritate me.

Okay... have you ever built an engine of any kind? Bike, car, diesel, whatever? Do you have any experience in engine building or design?

I do. I've built Jaguar race motors for fun for a number of years., though not of late. I used to build and race a CB450 DOHC, as well. And you're not the first to make such charges about Honda designs. But if the Hondas are badly/cheaply designed.... why do they keep winning races?

Here's a hint - quite often "common wisdom" is *wrong*, and can be proven wrong by a flow bench and flow modelling. It wasn't that long ago, for example, that "common wisdom" said that intake ports should be as smooth as possible, preferably mirror smooth. Which, as we all know, turns out to be so much of a load of bovine excrement that it's not even funny.

The final arbitrator of whether an engine is a good design or not is the racetrack and the real world - and Honda has excelled at both. So much so that they consistently beat "better" designed motors. Which means, surprise, that perhaps those "better" motors... aren't actually better.

For that matter, do any of your plethora of cars even RUN?

What you have right now is a lot of theoretical knowledge, and much of it doesn't pass a practical test.

[BlaRo]

Originally Posted by Ottobon

I didn't say anything about falling apart at 45mph, or shaking, or being unstable. I mean the way the vehicle responds to inputs, i want it to feel like a party on wheels with drunken women being shagged and Billy Gibbons playing live.

If its okay can we step back, and may i ask, is this actually angering you?, or are you just being defensive for the hell of it, because I'm just telling it like it is for fun, not to be a winner or looser/failure whatever. Just saying, no need to get personal, unless for some reason insulting Honda is like insulting your mother, in which case just say so.

Well, seeing as it's from a guy who actually owns, works on, rides, and enjoys his Honda motorcycle, it's a bit baseless to come around fervently decrying them as "boring" when you've never ridden or owned one before.

And as the owner of the CB750's little brother, I have to take umbrage at that episode as well: those are the same people that pass off the leaking gaskets and hard-to-start electrics of British and Italian machines as "character" and "passion", which as I've said before is a huge load of bollocks.

There is nothing wrong with owning a technologically advanced (for the time) and reliable motorcycle that does everything well. They're probably spiteful that Honda managed to drive the final stake in the British, Italian, and American motorcycle industries with one fell swoop. Not anybody else's fault if they're muddled with "tradition" and an inability to adapt to modernity.

[Ottobon]

Okay sorry, their most likely wonderful and I'm wrong for questioning something i don't have full knowledge about. Maybe I've been a Troll this time.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by Spectre

Your shift dogs may be wearing a bit, though it's not unusual to have to roll the rear wheel to get into a gear at a light.

As for the ears... considered wearing a full-face helmet with decent neck curtains?

It's not at the lights, i always downshift while moving anyway.

I have a full face helmet already, as for neck-curtains..umm.. I'll look them up, thanks. ahem.. (Is relatively new to biking)

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by BlaRo

Well, seeing as it's from a guy who actually owns, works on, rides, and enjoys his Honda motorcycle, it's a bit baseless to come around fervently decrying them as "boring" when you've never ridden or owned one before.

And as the owner of the CB750's little brother, I have to take umbrage at that episode as well: those are the same people that pass off the leaking gaskets and hard-to-start electrics of British and Italian machines as "character" and "passion", which as I've said before is a huge load of bollocks.

There is nothing wrong with owning a technologically advanced (for the time) and reliable motorcycle that does everything well. They're probably spiteful that Honda managed to drive the final stake in the British, Italian, and American motorcycle industries with one fell swoop. Not anybody else's fault if they're muddled with "tradition" and an inability to adapt to modernity.

Bingo. Let's not forget that the people calling Honda bikes boring are the same people who say that having to push your old 77 Triumph Thunderbird five miles home in the pouring rain because the Zener diode stupidly located in the headlight bucket died for the sixth time this year is "character", that having to do valve adjustments every 3000 miles (or the engine self destructs) on a 70s Ducati shows their "passion" and that having to "tickle" a Harley carb and kick it about fifty times before it will *maybe* start is "tradition."

It's not character. It's not passion. It's not tradition. It's STUPID.

Character is coming out of work after a really long day, discovering that your 26-year old Honda GL1000 (along with everything else) is covered in 2 inches of ice and snow from a sudden winter storm that brewed up, clearing the crap off the controls, setting the choke, hitting the start button - and having the Honda roar to life immediately. Followed by the bike not missing a beat on the slow torturous trip home in sub-zero temperatures.

(Character can also be defined by going to the pound to retrieve your wrecked CB750 that had been airborne and rolled, trying to start it out of curiosity - and having it start and run like nothing had hapened.)

Passion is bending a bike into a corner and not having to worry about the thing quitting in mid turn, allowing you to enjoy the ride without the bike getting in the way.

Tradition is doing the above over and over for millions of riders for over 50 years.

Originally Posted by Ottobon

Okay sorry, their most likely wonderful and I'm wrong for questioning something i don't have full knowledge about. Maybe I've been a Troll this time.

Yes, you have.