The General Motorbikers Discussion Thread

[Blind_Io]

Originally Posted by Redliner

Those pictures are a fail poster waiting to happen...

It's been done.



Apparently, this is epidemic.

[Crazyjeeper]

Not surprised though. The only bikes I've seen lying on the highway have been Harleys. Its not that people don't crash sportbikes, just I haven't personally see one. I've also never seen somebody on a Harley wearing any sort of protective gear.

[Blind_Io]

I'm seeing more and more gear on Hardley Ableson riders around here - and more sportbike crashes than cruisers.

[Crazyjeeper]

Must be a region thing. Then again, most sport bike riders are also in t-shirts in shorts. I think I might have seen 5 people in full gear in the past month.

[KaJuN]

Come to think of it the most well-geared motorcyclists around here seem to be the ones riding old Japanese bikes like my own. The touring bike guys are generally well-equipped too. The Harley and sport bike guys are the ones wearing invisible armor.

[Crazyjeeper]

The vast majority are here go with the "I'm not going to crash" strategy. Maybe 3 in 50 are fully kitted out in all of the proper gear.

I am currently saving to buy some sort of motorcycle and I'm allotting 1000 dollars of my budget to gear. Hopefully that will be enough.

[Spectre]

If you shop carefully, you can get that down to $500 or less, and still have good name brand gear.

Observe: http://www.newenough.com/browse/best_deals

Helmets are best purchased in person, though - until you know your sizes and brand preferences.

This guy has a nice project bike that would be a decent learning bike (though a bit on the large side, it was intended to be a big starter/return bike): http://dallas.craigslist.org/mcy/741316990.html


Amusingly, this issue's "Under The Radar" featured bike for Motorcycle Classics is... the Nighthawk 700S! http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/20...ghthawk-S.aspx
As for the gear thing... the people riding the older Japanese models tend to be the ones that care the most about their bikes' technical aspects. Often they've rescued them from languishing in barns and garages or from idiot previous owners. They have no intention to let their bike get trashed after having spent so much time on their mount, so they are also likely to protect themselves (gear *helps* you operate a bike safely.)

The touring bike riders often have spent $20-30K on their bike and accessories and see no reason to not protect themselves as well as their bike.

The Harley riders and squids on sportbikes tend to be "checkbook" bikers - they bought a lifestyle or just bought a speed high. They care little about the technical aspects of motorcycling, and whenever something goes wrong, they break out the checkbook for someone else to take care of. Protection is something they just don't think of, believe it conflicts with the "image" of the lifestyle they bought, or believe it is for people "afraid of crashing".

[KaJuN]

A word of caution to the new riders here: look well ahead of your front wheel. I was cruising around on some back roads today and my nice paved road suddenly became a gravel path. Fortunately I saw it well ahead of time so it wasn't an issue. You never know what you're going to come across out there.

[TomCat]

So recently, like many people, I've been toying with the idea of trading my car in on a motorcycle.

My brother in law actually traded his WRX for a motor scooter a few weeks ago. And since then he's been bugging me about doing something similar, since he knows I'm planning to trade in my Chrysler sometime in the next 10 months. Originally I was planning to get a sports car, like a Honda S2000, Solstice (maybe a turbo), Mazda RX8, etc. But when gas prices doubled, I started thinking about something more economical, like a Honda Civic (maybe an Si). So the idea of getting a motorcycle kind of fulfills both of those desires. Something sporty, but also economical.

I have no fears about riding a motorcycle on the streets. I'm a bit fearless when I drive, I'm not one of those people that over-reacts when driving. You ever see those people? Swerve around or hit the brakes when someone changes lanes next to them? Anyway, I also have no problem being on 2 wheels. I was heavy into BMX riding when I was in junior high and high school, doing tricks on the streets and even build big dirt jumps in the desert. I also have no problem changing my own gears, since I've been driving stick since I got my license, although I realize it's much different on a bike. I haven't ridden a motorcycle since I was 6 or 7 and had a friend with a couple small Honda dirtbikes and some horse property when I was living in California. The only other things I've ridden were a hunting style ATV with an automatic and a couple ATC's with clutchless manuals and thumb throttles.

The main thing that would bother me is committing to financing a bike for so many years and being stuck with it. What if I find out that I really don't like riding every day? I could possibly find some cheap POS and pay cash, which would be the smart thing to do since I'm bound to make a mistake and drop the bike, or possibly lay it down while moving. But I still want to get rid of my Chrysler (payments and insurance add up) and I somehow doubt it will be easy to sell private party. I'm also going to have my Toyota 4Runner, so I'll always have that for those days when I'm just not comfortable taking the bike (weather, etc) or if I need to go shopping or whatever.

So that's my life story. What do you guys suggest? I'm more interested in sport bikes then cruisers, but I'm not completely closed to the idea of getting a cruiser. Maybe someone could outline the advantages and disadvantages. I'm also not interested in going out and buying some big 1000cc bike either, 500cc is more then enough.

[Ottobon]

Finally got some serious time on what one might consider a motorcycle.



yes thats a 70cc 4 stroke

At the 24 Hours of Lemons a neighboring team had one and I promised I wouldn't crash into their Miata if they'd let me ride it. As they were basically just shooting the breeze they let me have a good 2-3 hour ride on the thing. It was great but it brought up a few questions.

Am i ever supposed to turn the tire into a corner? Or is it ideal to keep it going straight or even slightly counter-steering? Does anybody have a description of how to properly control a slide, and is it possible (think Valentino Rossi here) to use brakes when entering a corner to get some sort of trail-braking effect, or is it better to just shift your own weight around?

The reason i ask this is because i did a lot low speed, little maneuvers in a attempt to make baby steps towards a better riding theory. It was great until i tried my quad riding approach to power sliding (Thrusting my body forward and into the turn) which resulted in a low speed but very quick ka-plat onto the ground. Before that i had held a few little slides but whatever technique i was using it was more instinctive and i can't really remember it.

I also forgot how much better bikes/quads can sound when your riding them then when they ride by (Kinda of like a early Miata, which sounds great on the inside but sounds all raspy on the oustide)

On a side note i've decided i NEED as much good body armor as possible as i don't like not knowing how to control vehicles and my curious riding style will probably land me on the ground more then once, even though knowing how not to crashing is ultimately my goal.

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by TomCat

The main thing that would bother me is committing to financing a bike for so many years and being stuck with it. What if I find out that I really don't like riding every day? I could possibly find some cheap POS and pay cash, which would be the smart thing to do since I'm bound to make a mistake and drop the bike, or possibly lay it down while moving..

Doesn't have to be a POS, but remember that $500-1500 will actually buy you a decent learner's bike. You can learn to ride on it and cheap is good because EVERY newbie drops their bike at least once in the first six months. You read that right; we ALL dropped our first bike at least once in the first six months. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying, period.

Anyway, buy something cheap, good, and common so when you drop it it takes less damage and it's cheap to fix. Somewhere upthread is a list of learner's bikes that can be found on the used market. Get a little learner's bike, learn to ride, *then* trade in the car on something that you really want to ride.

So that's my life story. What do you guys suggest? I'm more interested in sport bikes then cruisers, but I'm not completely closed to the idea of getting a cruiser. Maybe someone could outline the advantages and disadvantages. I'm also not interested in going out and buying some big 1000cc bike either, 500cc is more then enough.

Originally Posted by Ottobon

Am i ever supposed to turn the tire into a corner? Or is it ideal to keep it going straight or even slightly counter-steering? Does anybody have a description of how to properly control a slide, and is it possible (think Valentino Rossi here) to use brakes when entering a corner to get some sort of trail-braking effect, or is it better to just shift your own weight around?

My advice to both of you:

http://www.msf-usa.org/

http://store.msf-usa.org/Store/MoreDetails.aspx?pid=135

Do a Ridercourse first - it will save you from having to unlearn too many bad habits, and it will keep you alive. I also recommend the above Motorcycling Excellence book as a pre-reader before taking the course. It is not a substitute for the course, but it is THE primer on the art of riding a motorcycle.

As for steering, both weight transfer, countersteering and counterweighting come into play at different times. Nobody slides on pavement Rossi style in the real world. Even Rossi says it's a bad idea on the street.

On a side note i've decided i NEED as much good body armor as possible as i don't like not knowing how to control vehicles and my curious riding style will probably land me on the ground more then once, even though knowing how not to crashing is ultimately my goal.

Yup. Even those of us with hundreds of thousands of miles under our butts wear gear, you should too.

Originally Posted by KaJuN

A word of caution to the new riders here: look well ahead of your front wheel. I was cruising around on some back roads today and my nice paved road suddenly became a gravel path. Fortunately I saw it well ahead of time so it wasn't an issue. You never know what you're going to come across out there.

No kidding. Another good rule of thumb - if a surface looks shiny, it's probably going to be slick so use caution when crossing it on a bike. I didn't remember this the hard way, but I watched some poor idiot on a sportbike dump it in a parking lot on some wet marble paving today. Neither he nor the bike was seriously injured, but he's got some scrapes on his plastics now.

[KaJuN]

Not to sound like an egotistical bastard but I didn't find the MSF course particularly helpful. I had been riding around for a couple months beforehand and all the while I stuck to what I learned in the Ohio Motorcycle Operator's Manual. The instructors basically just reiterated everything that was in that manual. I don't know if it's a case of Ohio's manual being so good or the course being lackluster compared to other states because everywhere I go I hear people blindly harping on about the MSF. Fortunately it only set me back $25.

Of course everyone learns differently and the best plan is to do whatever makes you feel the most comfortable.

[Spectre]

Are you sure it was an MSF course and not the A+ course? I've had both, people do mistake one for the other, and the MSF one is both different and much much better.

And, of course, a lot depends on your instructors. If you have idiots, you're not going to get much from it.

Either way, if you're new to bikes, it lets you screw around with someone else's bike before you start riding "for real" so the initial abuse goes on those bikes instead of yours.

[Ottobon]

Oops, when i said valentino rossi i meant, was it possible/plausible at all. I was thinking more about how the technique would work for something like a ORV facility etc were it would be safer and a bit easier to slide around. Riding on the road at normal speeds and in good conditions already seems dangerous enough.

I just know i learned a lot about driving from reading and watching videos, real world stuff is were i can turn knowledge into reality, but in the past its helped me get going in the right direction. Especially visuals, even animated (so long as its realistic.)


Or to go on: Currently I'm thinking my issue was that i was using my legs to balance the bike instead of my upper body, so when i tried to push up and straighten the slide i actually kinda kicked the whole bike onto its side. Might be wrong though, maybe its better to not even think about it.

[tigger]

Originally Posted by TomCat

So recently, like many people, I've been toying with the idea of trading my car in on a motorcycle.

I was in a very similar situation to your own. I rode a lot of BMX and street when I was a teenager (still do a little) and I'm not really scared of much in my car. Mostly because the Ford's too slow to get me in trouble . I thought I would be very comfortable on a bike once I got the controls down, but I was more or less wrong. The heightened sense of awareness you get on a bike is great, but it also makes (me at least) more wary of cars, and I've grown leery of cobblestone streets . Overall though, I like it more than driving a car.

Originally Posted by Ottobon

Am i ever supposed to turn the tire into a corner? Or is it ideal to keep it going straight or even slightly counter-steering?

At low speeds, when you're not leaning the bike, turn into the corners. Once you start leaning more you progressively counter-steer. Also, keep your body upright (perpendicular to the ground) at low speeds. Lean with your bike at higher speeds. You get a feel for it when you ride more.

Originally Posted by Ottobon

Does anybody have a description of how to properly control a slide ...

I've never tried anything like that on pavement, and I don't think I ever will. On dirt though, it's about as straightforward as you make it sound. Begin turn in, keep the back end light as you brake, maybe roll on the throttle a little, letting the back hang out and then straighten up and come blasting out of the turn. Damnit, I just remembered how much fun that is . You don't need to pitch yourself so far in and forward as on a quad, but body english is necessary for balance. A nice big grassy field is great for this, wet grass lets you slide easily and provides a soft landing.

But when my bikes back end has come out on pavement (on fucking cobblestone, actually), I've dropped faster than I could react.

[Spectre]

Yup, on the street if your back end "washes out," it's pretty much low side time. You do not drift a bike on the street.

[Karoug]

That's why i tell beginners to rent a dirtbike (or if i know them i'll lend them mine) and have fun for a few hours.. It's the best education you'll ever get. But there are situations where even the best rider can't stay upright, and when that happens you better know how to crash. Which you also learn on a dirtbike..

[godlikepagan]

Completely random but I saw an R1 rider bite it in a 15 mile an hour turn and almost fell off a cliff the other day. He hit a gravel patch I think. That sort of thing makes you really think twice about riding fast i guess.

[KaJuN]

Originally Posted by Spectre

Are you sure it was an MSF course and not the A+ course? I've had both, people do mistake one for the other, and the MSF one is both different and much much better.

And, of course, a lot depends on your instructors. If you have idiots, you're not going to get much from it.

Either way, if you're new to bikes, it lets you screw around with someone else's bike before you start riding "for real" so the initial abuse goes on those bikes instead of yours.

Yep it was the MSF course. The instructors seemed very competent and I could tell they enjoyed what they were doing. Some of the other people in the course struggled a bit on certain things so I guess I was just lucky and everything came naturally to me.

[TomCat]

Originally Posted by Spectre

Doesn't have to be a POS, but remember that $500-1500 will actually buy you a decent learner's bike. You can learn to ride on it and cheap is good because EVERY newbie drops their bike at least once in the first six months. You read that right; we ALL dropped our first bike at least once in the first six months. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying, period.

Anyway, buy something cheap, good, and common so when you drop it it takes less damage and it's cheap to fix. Somewhere upthread is a list of learner's bikes that can be found on the used market. Get a little learner's bike, learn to ride, *then* trade in the car on something that you really want to ride.

You really think a decent bike could be bought for less then a grand? Something that could be riden without any (or very little) work?

I guess I'll find those good learner bikes you guys listed in this thread and check the autotrader. I might even call my insurance company and see what it would cost to add. I already get a multi-car discount because of the Toyota, so hopefully it wouldn't be too much.

Originally Posted by Spectre

My advice to both of you:

http://www.msf-usa.org/

http://store.msf-usa.org/Store/MoreDetails.aspx?pid=135

Do a Ridercourse first - it will save you from having to unlearn too many bad habits, and it will keep you alive. I also recommend the above Motorcycling Excellence book as a pre-reader before taking the course. It is not a substitute for the course, but it is THE primer on the art of riding a motorcycle.

That was something else my brother in law told me about. He isn't doing it, but he said it would probably be a good idea. But he told me it cost about $250.00, does that sound about right to you?

Originally Posted by tigger

I was in a very similar situation to your own. I rode a lot of BMX and street when I was a teenager (still do a little) and I'm not really scared of much in my car. Mostly because the Ford's too slow to get me in trouble . I thought I would be very comfortable on a bike once I got the controls down, but I was more or less wrong. The heightened sense of awareness you get on a bike is great, but it also makes (me at least) more wary of cars, and I've grown leery of cobblestone streets . Overall though, I like it more than driving a car.

Oh I realize it will be much different and I'll be much more wary of the cars around me. I'm already paranoid about being in people's blind spots and watching cars that are looking to make a right turn to pull out in front of me. I have no tickets and have never been pulled over, despite being a speeder. I know even driving my Toyota on the streets requires me to be very careful. It's top heavy as hell and weighs over 5,000lbs and doesn't have very good brakes. And now that it has a solid diff locker in the rear, it requires some careful operation to maneuver around. Every vehicle will require certain car when driving on public roads.

What I'm really happy to see though are a lot more bikes on the streets and less trucks and SUVs. It almost makes me glad gas prices are where they are. Almost. I find myself driving around town and imagining being on a bike. I'm curious, how well do bikes soak up bumps? And how does it feel driving on the freeway at 70+ mph? Stable?