This just in: BMW AG are a bunch of chickens**ts

[klutch]

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - BMW <BMWG.DE> will not join forces with German carmakers Mercedes-Benz <DCXGn.DE>, Volkswagen <VOWG.DE> and Audi <NSUG.DE> to market clean diesels in the United States under the BLUETEC name.

While Volkswagen and Mercedes already sell diesels in the U.S. market, BMW has no plans to do so any time soon and declines to use the BLUETEC name, currently being used to help sell Mercedes-Benz E 320s that run on ultra low sulfur diesel in the U.S.

The world's biggest premium carmaker, a fierce rival of DaimlerChrysler's luxury Mercedes brand, first wants to develop a urea-based technology to reduce nitrogen oxides before considering a sustained entry into the U.S. diesel market.

"We are in the process of thinking of a name that is different from BLUETEC," a spokesman for BMW said on Wednesday.

Helped by diesel fuel subsidies, diesels make up around half of the western European car market but traditionally they have been a tough sell for passenger cars in the U.S.

Widespread misperceptions of diesels as dirty and loud, regulatory hurdles and diesels' extra expense -- they cost around $2,000 more than petrol engines -- have limited their appeal in the past.

But last month's advent of diesel fuel in the U.S. with a low sulfur content of just 15 parts per million has opened a window for carmakers to highlight diesel's far better fuel economy and robust towing power. Diesels typically get around 30 percent better mileage than petrol engines.

Volkswagen, Audi and Mercedes consequently want to push diesels under the BLUETEC name as an alternative technology to counter the success of Toyota's hybrids.

"Three brands have more power," a Volkswagen spokesman said on Wednesday, adding Mercedes' sister brand Chrysler would also join the alliance at a later date.

A formal announcement was due on November 28 ahead of the Los Angeles car show.

Developed by Mercedes-Benz and diesel injection system specialist Bosch <ROBG.UL>, BLUETEC with AdBlue lets cars meet the stringent U.S. emissions norm, Bin 5, which goes into effect in 2009.

Due in 2008, the AdBlue system uses urea-based additives to cut nitrogen oxide emissions and thus meet clean air rules in all 50 U.S. states.

Not as Green as it Seems
By Christian Wüst

BMW is manufacturing the first series of hydrogen fueled cars. They're not as green as they seem. For a start, they're incredibly thirsty -- and they will put more strain on the environment than a heavy diesel truck.

There's a new method for fueling cars. Instead of the usual dispenser nozzle, a plastic hose about the size of a sewage pipe is attached to the vehicle. An automatic clasp closes automatically around the tank opening.

The airtight hose system was developed by Germany's Linde conglomerate and has already been installed at several German gas stations. It's designed to allow the average person to fill his or her car with liquid hydrogen in just eight minutes. Berlin is one of the few places that already disposes of such a filling station.


BMW's Hydrogen 7: Not as Green as it Seems
Click on a picture to launch the image gallery (5 Photos)

Last week, German car-maker BMW used the facility to present car testers with the first small series vehicle in the world that drives on both gas and liquid hydrogen. The "Hydrogen 7," will be part of BMW's upscale "7" series of vehicles, and BMW is now carefully preparing to make the new car available to customers.

Starting in March, the car will be delivered to about 100 celebrities, but so far BMW is keeping mum about their names or what their leasing rates might be. The car's developers are hoping to gain insight into the practical reliability of a technology many consider the be all and end all of the car industry's ecologically clean and climate friendly future.

The Munich-based company is promising "sustainable mobility and sheer joy of driving," citing the car's 260 horsepower, 12-cylinder engine. The Hydrogen 7's standard combustion engine has been adapted to run on both liquid hydrogen and regular gasoline as well -- and tons of it. The company says the car will consume an average of 13.9 liters (3.7 gallons) per 100 kilometers (roughly 17 miles per gallon) using regular gasoline and a whopping 50 liters to drive the same distance when fuelled by hydrogen.

In other words, BMW has created an energy-guzzling engine that only seems to be environmentally friendly -- a farcical ecomobile whose only true merit is that of illustrating the cardinal dilemma of a possible hydrogen-based economy.

The problem is that hydrogen is in scarce supply and producing it requires vast amounts of energy. Climate-friendly production of liquid hydrogen on a large scale presupposes a virtually unlimited supply of ecologically produced electricity -- not something likely to materialize in the near future. That's why energy experts from the Wuppertal Institute for Climate, Environment and Energy believe forcing the transition to a hydrogen-based economy within the next three to four decades is "not an ecologically sound" idea.

Storing the volatile energy source also requires energy and money. The only method that promises a reasonable storage life is liquid storage at temperatures below -253 degrees Celsius (-423 degrees Fahrenheit). The process of cooling the storage facility down to such a low temperature alone uses up to one-third of the energy contained in one fuel tank.

Volatile fuel

BMW's thermo-tank, specially designed to hold liquid hydrogen as well as regular gasoline, has the same diameter as the drum of a washing machine. It has a volume of 170 liters (45 gallons) and takes up half the trunk. But it can only hold eight kilograms (17.6 lbs) of the extremely light hydrogen fuel -- barely enough for a 200 kilometer (124 mile) trip. What's more, some of the tank's contents have to be released as they heat up and evaporate -- even the best insulation system can't keep temperatures down forever. After nine days, half the tank load has gone bad.

BMW's competitors are somewhat puzzled by the company's decision to adapt combustion engines -- known for their high fuel consumption -- so that they will run on a fuel as sensitive and problematic as liquid hydrogen. "We think it's non-sense," says Frank Seyfried, research director for hydrogen-based propulsion at Volkswagen.

With the exception of BMW, every car company out there is betting on a different technology: fuel cells, which transform hydrogen into electricity via a chemical process. The electricity generated in the process then drives the vehicle. This method promises far greater efficiency, but the current technology yields only modest driving performance. Test cars with fuel cell engines can produce between 50 and 90 kilowatts, but they consume only about 14 liters of hydrogen per 100 kilometers (62 miles) -- a fuel value corresponding to that of four liters (one gallon) of gasoline.

BMW's chief developer Klaus Draeger still thinks there's good reason not to shelve the combustion engine. "It's the only engine that meets our requirements in terms of dynamics," he explains.
And so, in creating the Hydrogen 7, BMW is announcing a future of putatively clean, full-throttle driving. The new car caters to the pleasing fantasy of customers spoiled by high-horsepower engines: That they can conform to ecological standards without making any sacrifices, burning "clean" fuel to their heart's content. Advertizing images display the Hydrogen 7 against a backdrop of wind turbines and solar panels.

But the image is one of deceit. Because the hydrogen dispensed at the new filling station is generated primarily from petroleum and natural gas, the new car puts about as much strain on the environment as a heavy truck with a diesel engine. Add the loss of environmental benefits involved in the production and transportation of the putatively clean fuel to the consumption of the car itself and you get an actual consumption corresponding to considerably more than 20 liters (5.3 gallons) of fossil fuel.

The environment isn't the only loser: Customers will also have to shell out a lot of money for their deceptive display of ecologically responsible driving. The current standard price for liquid hydrogen is 57 euro cents (0.73 US cents) per liter (0.3 gallons). And the price tag on a 100 kilometer (62 mile) drive in the Hydrogen 7, at a comfortable speed, is about €30 ($38).

[logo]

so i don't understand, I didn't really read the whole thing too lazy, but so what if BMW doesn't wanna sell clean diesels in the US? its their choice.
edit: so ok I took the whole thing the other way around, if BMW wanna produce a new technology rather then using the same one benz, audi and VW will use just to battle toyota then they should. the newer and more technologies the better. more results, more alternatives which will lead to better inovations in the future, their first version of their technology might not be as good as the rivals, but it might be in the future with further development.

[SL65]

BMW really should get their diesels into the US market because there is growing demand (so I hear) for luxo-diesels and this is supported by MB's increasing sales of their diesels. BLUETEC is a new thing and so far appears to be doing well for MB.

BMW should also bring their diesels to the US because they make good ones!!

Anyway - it's their choice.

"Three brands have more power," a Volkswagen spokesman said on Wednesday, adding Mercedes' sister brand Chrysler would also join the alliance at a later date.

Sounds like World War

[epp_b]

This makes BMW a hero to me -- no stupid digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga - digga

[MadCow809]

go BMW!!!!


to be honest, i dont really care what happens to the american market.

[bartboy9891]

there is not much demand for diesels at all here

[zenkidori]

It's not like BMW makes a Diesel anyone here wants to own anyway.

[BlaRo]

Whatever. BMW makes performance cars, right? Apparently. So I doubt many secretaries are going to take a diesel 3-Series convertible over its gas equivalent, along with clueless yuppies in their 5-Series.

Though it'd be nice to have the option, especially on the X5 and X3.

[mautzel]

BMW has (very) good Diesel engines, all they want to avoid in the beginning are the costs for making them popular in the US, capacities of BMW's factories are fully occupied in contrast to Merc and VW anyway. If the activities of Mercedes / Audi / VW should turn out to be successful, BMW will be the first company to follow in two to three years.

[Samir]

I would not call BMW a bunch of "chickenshits". It takes balls to sell cars as ugly as their 6 and 7 series are, for that price, with that little reliablity.

[ryosuke]

i don't see what puts BMW in a bad light here either...

its their decision if they take part in a stupid marketing thing or not.

as far as the "greeness" goes, BMW was the first german manufacturers to make particle filters available in all their models and they are standard equipment in all their cars nowadays while VW still charges around 500€ for them throughout half of their range.

the hydrogen 7 series then, is one of the first hydrogen cars and is still in development afterall.

but have a look at the 335i, thats a high performance car and it gets a very good mileage, too.

[fbc]

So BMW have decided to not take part in this marketing scheme?? Big deal, the idea seems a bit silly to me anyway. As for them not bringing diesels to America - if they don't see a demand for them, why would they bother?

And I'm still hopeful that future development of BMW's hydrogen cars will make them a reaslitic proposition - internal combustion FTW.

[Hidden_Hunter]

BMW is a free company, they can do as they please. It doesn't make them chickenshits just because they don't want to sell a product under someone elses marketting name.

[Alex_0700]

That's interesting, but there have been rumors that BMW can meet US emissions and may offer a diesel soon. It looks like they want to develop their own technology, nothing wrong with being independent. Plus they compete fiercely with DaimlerChrysler, makes sense that they wouldn't want to adopt their marketing name.

BMW will have a diesel in the United States by 2008, said Burkhard Goeschel, BMW board member for purchasing and development.

He would not say which model BMW will offer. But if BMW follows the trend, it would put a diesel in something large and fuel-thirsty, such as the X5 SUV or 7-series sedan.

Autoweek

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

It's not like BMW makes a Diesel anyone here wants to own anyway.

Yeah, there is. I know of several that would run to the dealerships with cash if offered a chance to pickup a 535d (with the Sequential turbo'd diesel) or a 3 series with the same engine. There will still be one issue for them though, diesel fuel is a pain to come by in California, where a large amount of BMW's sales are in the US.

With the US finally having low sulfer diesel fuel (yay we are no longer behind 3rd world countries in diesel fuel quality), no reason to not try and introduce diesels here.

[targa_997]

Modern diesels are really amazing, they even offer more performance than their gasoline counterparts for everyday driving (on a gasoline engine you need to tackle the redline to get the same performance). Take the 535d, it has the low-rpm grunt of a V8 muscle car and the consumption of a 2.4 I4!

[Izari]

diesel = bad for performance driving
bmw = ultimate driving machine (performance)
diesel =\= bmw

[targa_997]

Originally Posted by Izari

diesel = bad for performance driving
bmw = ultimate driving machine (performance)
diesel =\= bmw

So why do they produce (probably) the best diesels of the market?

How comes the Audi R10 won at the 24 Heures du Mans and 12 Hours of Sebring 2006?
Also BMW won the 24 Hours Nürburgring 1998 in a 320d.

I personnally prefer gasoline engines, but it's a fact that diesels are serious alternative to gasolines, even in performance.

[Salar]

Originally Posted by Izari

diesel = bad for performance driving
bmw = ultimate driving machine (performance)
diesel =\= bmw

Hydrogen FTW! LMAO

[klutch]

The fact is, there is a demand for diesels. I see tons of VW's and MB's around town, with TDI and CDI on the back. Every one of those could have been a BMW. I don't understand why BMW won't side with Bluetec, they are going to lose market share to the others. Waiting to release the diesels into the North American market will put them at a serious disadvantage, while they could have been developing low-nitrogen emitting systems in the meantime.