"Who Killed The Electric Car?"

[jeffy777]

Has anyone watched this documentary? I was just browsing around mininova and was thinking about giving it a view.

I went to the site and watched the trailer on the main page. Seems kind of interesting. Tom Hanks, Mel Gibson, and some other stars are in it. Check out the trailer here:
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/

I have no clue how accurate this movie is, as I haven't seen it or researched it at all. Just curious if anyone else has.

EDIT: I guess the documentary gives GM hard time. Here's what wikipedia says about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Kil...lectric_Car%3F

EDIT: Depending on the way this discussion goes, it may need to be moved to the Political section, but it is about an Automotive topic.

[Momentum57]

I have to say I did not see the movie but i did watch almost all the press run up to. On the daily show had the director on and raised some rather dumb reasons that called for gobs of speculation. Jon then proved that he was a real New Yorker, who probably does not bother with driving, saying “Its design was good, looked futuristic”: it had rear wheel skirts. In my opinion it was hideous and looked worse than the Honda Incest or Insight.

They mention that GM said they did not have enough people who were interested but the director says he found 5000. Imagine if you could gather 5000 people and a company would have to build your car. Now that gas is back down to 2.30-2.60 people care would even less about this movie. Mind you I live in New York where they outlawed the Diesel engines in non-commercial use, they tax gas as much as any other state to as they say to promote fuel economy. People are moronic and governments are even worse, let the industry innovate and police itself.

[cvrefugee]

You still pollute by creating electricity, so what are the benefits? Less dependence on oil?

[jeffy777]

I still haven't watched it yet, but it seems like with all controversial documentaries, they tend to bend the facts to suit their needs.

You still pollute by creating electricity, so what are the benefits? Less dependence on oil?

Yeah, I guess that's movie maker's reasoning since I read that they make a big point about the Bush administration being pro-oil.

[BlaRo]

Originally Posted by cvg

You still pollute by creating electricity, so what are the benefits? Less dependence on oil?

It's a neat, trendy stopgap for until we can come up with something better. I doubt thousands of EV1s running around California would help their electric grid anyway, especially with those blackouts from a few years ago. (You tell me the rest, you live there.)

Plus, it's an excuse to make fun of American cars, or at least GM. They did more to bring the electric car to the American conscience than any other car company, thanks to the EV1, and naturally they get flak for it.

[Momentum57]

I doubt thousands of EV1s running around California would help their electric grid anyway, especially with those blackouts from a few years ago.

What's better is that comes up in Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room great movie and even better documentary. I paraphrase a bit but it explains how and has recordings of these executives in meetings asking plant managers if there was a reason to shut the plant down
“ya sure preventive maintenance but…”
board: “perfect do it”
plant manager: “but the grid…”
later in congressional questioning: “an elderly lady suffered a heart attack when she was suck in an elevator, do you feel at all responsible for…”
I think Skilling: “I don’t think you understand we were making BILLIONS for EVERYONE, even you, and if some old lady was a little inconvenienced the so be it.”

God it was glorious

[British_Rover]

Originally Posted by Momentum57

I doubt thousands of EV1s running around California would help their electric grid anyway, especially with those blackouts from a few years ago.

What's better is that comes up in Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room great movie and even better documentary. I paraphrase a bit but it explains how and has recordings of these executives in meetings asking plant managers if there was a reason to shut the plant down
“ya sure preventive maintenance but…”
board: “perfect do it”
plant manager: “but the grid…”
later in congressional questioning: “an elderly lady suffered a heart attack when she was suck in an elevator, do you feel at all responsible for…”
I think Skilling: “I don’t think you understand we were making BILLIONS for EVERYONE, even you, and if some old lady was a little inconvenienced the so be it.”

God it was glorious

That is a movie I want to see and just have not gotten around to it.

Thanks for reminding me.

One of the ideas behind pure EVs is that it is easier to control polution levels at a power plant then at a car. Also now that in many areas you can choose who your energy provider is so you can choose to have an energy provider who uses renewable resources and clean energy generation.

[AutoMX]

they got flak not for making the car, but for recalling it (though the reasons why are unclear to me, maybe i should see the movie).

as far as the electric grid goes here, they wouldnt matter, it's air conditioning units that cause blackouts here during the summer. car chargers would use some low amount over the period of many hours, which wouldnt do much at all. in fact a TV uses more than most golf cart chargers.

also regarding pollution, 60% of electricity in the US is from coal, which isnt imported, and hydroelectric+wind+nuclear do much of the rest. i don't see how thats worse or the same as directly using oil. canada's even better, thanks to quebec's hydroelectric plants.

[jetsetter]

What the US needs it a better way to burn coal and more nuclear powerplants. Perhaps some large wind projects in the Midwest and solar projects in the South West but nuclear all the way. Just need better way to deal with the nuclear waste.

[YF19pilot]

Originally Posted by jetsetter

What the US needs it a better way to burn coal and more nuclear powerplants. Perhaps some large wind projects in the Midwest and solar projects in the South West but nuclear all the way. Just need better way to deal with the nuclear waste.

Odd that here in Florida I keep seeing these comercials constantly airing about Coal.

Check out this website:

www.learnaboutcoal.org

To paraphrase one of the comercials, coal consumption [for electricity] has tripled since the 1970's, yet emissions have been reduced by 30%. Oh, and there's about a 250 year's supply or more here in the US.

In the end, an EV that's charged by a grid running off a coal burning plant is probably cleaner, and isn't "supporting those rag-head terrorist monkeys."

[AutoMX]

yea they keep showing those here too, but if you do the math, that means they are dumping 210% the amount of emissions today compared to the 70s

also, burning coal is releasing ALOT of CO2, the filters trap carbon monoxide and other toxic gases but last i checked, CO2 isnt one, and if it was, whats left in the fumes

[YF19pilot]

Originally Posted by AutoMX

yea they keep showing those here too, but if you do the math, that means they are dumping 210% the amount of emissions today compared to the 70s

also, burning coal is releasing ALOT of CO2, the filters trap carbon monoxide and other toxic gases but last i checked, CO2 isnt one, and if it was, whats left in the fumes

Careful how you read the wording. I think they're trying to say that 3 times the coal plants are producing 2/3s the emmisions of the coal plants in 1970. And that new technologies are constantly developed to make the plants cleaner.

[AutoMX]

well again it all depends, they can be using the words for their own benefit

[YF19pilot]

Originally Posted by AutoMX

well again it all depends, they can be using the words for their own benefit

This is true.

[Momentum57]

Yes i know i screwed up the H hold and im sorry, but, this is the largest Wind Farm in New York State. Its up in Lewis county and looks like the war of the worlds when you see it just hit the horizon.

Edit: Really, Really Wide Picture 1

The drive is really nice for those in New York, Vermont, or New Hampshire.

Edit: Really, Really Wide Picture 2

[Burlap Sack]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oexsc3CqjmI

[sgb33f]

resize them pics pls

[sandor_]

Originally Posted by YF19pilot

Odd that here in Florida I keep seeing these comercials constantly airing about Coal.

Check out this website:

www.learnaboutcoal.org

To paraphrase one of the comercials, coal consumption [for electricity] has tripled since the 1970's, yet emissions have been reduced by 30%. Oh, and there's about a 250 year's supply or more here in the US.

In the end, an EV that's charged by a grid running off a coal burning plant is probably cleaner, and isn't "supporting those rag-head terrorist monkeys."

and if all of a sudden that 20 million barrel of oil a day habit we have of driving cars all turns to electric power, that 250 year supply of coal quickly turns to a 25 year supply and the cost of electricity skyrockets.

***EDIT

i pulled that number of 25 years from my ass, but you can see the point.

[sandor_]

over 70% of the US's electricity comes from fossil fuels... THAT is the problem with electric vehicles. But hey, it makes quasi-treehuggers happy, because they aren't *personally* emitting the pollution...

[sandor_]

ok, i just did 5 minutes worth of math...

the US has a 250 year supply of coal @ today's consumption rates..

we use 62 trillion BTUs worth of coal per day in the US
we use 116 trillion BTUs worth of oil everyday

so switching to electric vehicles would triple coal consumption, giving us only about 80 years of coal, assuming energy usage will not rise in the future.

not a very large supply anymore, not to mention that we would have to chop the tops off the rocky mountains, etc in order to actually get to our supply of coal...