1992 Camaro project - Halfway there

That sucks man. At this point, I'd scrap the whole engine and start fresh, probably with a new crate engine. Maybe Mr Murphy will stop fucking with you.
 
Fuck man, I'm sorry. Try to stay motivated and rebuild the beast, as hard as that is.

it shouldnt be that hard. once you get a short block you take the parts you know are good and put them into it. but you have to stay motivated! if you dont youll lose your mind and not give a shit about the car at all. remember it as a whole!
 
That sucks man. At this point, I'd scrap the whole engine and start fresh, probably with a new crate engine. Maybe Mr Murphy will stop fucking with you.

No way man. It didnt run long enough to damage anything (I'll be sure to examine it as it comes apart), oil pressure was still fine when I shut it off and i'll take a good look at the cam and lifters to see if it damaged them, but assuming everything survived without any damage (Which is a reasonable assumpiton seeing as how I caught it before anything broke) I can move everything except the rings and gaskets into another block and rebuild it.

I would trash it if they were cheap, crappy parts, but the rotating assembly is nice enough and it's also balanced so I'm definitely reusing that. And if the cam is fine, then everything in the block can be reused, even the bearings if they look okay. I may decide not to reuse those, but they certainly dont have much wear on them and they're already wearing into the crank and rods, so I think they'd be even better than new ones, to be honest.

This time if it is the block taht's the problem, I'm going to end up removing the entire drivetrain (including the rear end) and replacing it all with my T56 and 9-bolt and have all that ready by the time the engine is ready to go back in.
 
sounds like a plan! aslong as theres nothing really damaged with the piece its fine. IE crank cam etc etc. but the lifters might have water in them so id wanna replace those if anything. and as far as the bearings go. whats afew bucks in brand new bearings, seals, gaskets when itll give you security that there all new.
 
sounds like a plan! aslong as theres nothing really damaged with the piece its fine. IE crank cam etc etc. but the lifters might have water in them so id wanna replace those if anything. and as far as the bearings go. whats afew bucks in brand new bearings, seals, gaskets when itll give you security that there all new.

Changing the bearings might do more harm than good honestly since they're all worn in together now. My only concern would be that tolerances on a new block might be slightly different... but I'll have to do some research on it.
 
Changing the bearings might do more harm than good honestly since they're all worn in together now. My only concern would be that tolerances on a new block might be slightly different... but I'll have to do some research on it.

you wont know for sure till you research it and tear down the engine whilst you have the new block. but youll figure it out.. you have to!
 
Im gonna see if the 305 still turns over by hand, if so, I'm gonna be throwing it back in the car, and I'll be doing the T56 and rear end swaps, and over the course of the next 6 months to a year I will be putting together another 350. Whether it's the same motor in a different block or a different motor is a matter of semantics, it will be a 1 pc rear main seal (roller cam) block so it will need a new crankshaft and a new oil pan than what I have. So it's gonna be a new motor with a lot of the old motor's parts, but a lot of new parts too.

Since it will be a 1 pc RMS crankshaft I can use a standard flywheel for the T56 (Saves me about $400 since Ialready have that flywheel) but I will have to get the crank re-balanced to the rods and pistons. The question is whether or not I should go ahead and upgrade to forged pistons or not. This is the time to do it if I choose to. I've got nice hypereutectic pistons with coated skirts, but they're .060" over, which means if I punch out a block that doesnt need to be that far over, I will effectively shorten its lifespan and prevent another rebuild in another 100-200k miles. If I get .030 over pistons, I can reuse that block when it kicks the bucket next. Follow me? So I have decisions to make. I will probably just end up punching it out to .060 over, though. Since it's a newer block, I can use a factory style roller cam and lifters (MEGA AWESOME) so that means I may not reuse the cam I have either... Although I certainly can, and since that's what my valve springs are set up for, I probably will, but I've got a lot of time to think about that.

So it's starting to look more and more like this build is just... done. It will live on in spirit... but it wont be a simple matter of a heart transplant.

So that's the plan right now. A lot of hypotheticals... but I'm pretty mcuh starting over.
 
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No way man. It didnt run long enough to damage anything (I'll be sure to examine it as it comes apart), oil pressure was still fine when I shut it off and i'll take a good look at the cam and lifters to see if it damaged them, but assuming everything survived without any damage (Which is a reasonable assumpiton seeing as how I caught it before anything broke) I can move everything except the rings and gaskets into another block and rebuild it.

I would trash it if they were cheap, crappy parts, but the rotating assembly is nice enough and it's also balanced so I'm definitely reusing that. And if the cam is fine, then everything in the block can be reused, even the bearings if they look okay. I may decide not to reuse those, but they certainly dont have much wear on them and they're already wearing into the crank and rods, so I think they'd be even better than new ones, to be honest.

This time if it is the block taht's the problem, I'm going to end up removing the entire drivetrain (including the rear end) and replacing it all with my T56 and 9-bolt and have all that ready by the time the engine is ready to go back in.

I said it as if I were in your place. If I had been bitten in the ass over this build as many times as you have, I'd say fuck it and hedge my bets with a new crate engine. I'd be expecting the "anything that can go wrong, will go wrong" rule to come into play at anytime. Maybe look at it as god's way of telling me (several times) that I'm not meant to build this engine and have it work.

I admire you for saying "bring it on" in the face of Mr Murphy.
 
I said it as if I were in your place. If I had been bitten in the ass over this build as many times as you have, I'd say fuck it and hedge my bets with a new crate engine. I'd be expecting the "anything that can go wrong, will go wrong" rule to come into play at anytime. Maybe look at it as god's way of telling me (several times) that I'm not meant to build this engine and have it work.

I admire you for saying "bring it on" in the face of Mr Murphy.

Fuck crate engines, built not bought bro! Crate engines are never exactly what you wanted. It's like buying a Dell vs growing your own. I'd never be happy with a Crate engine. And at the moment it's pretty much looking like (Assuming the heads check out okay) everything below the heads is gonna be new anyway. I'm going to end up with a completely new shortblock probably.
 
you could probably resure everything. minus the pistons if you get this

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=NAL-10105123&autoview=sku

which wouldnt be a bad idea. if everything else (crank, connecting rods) are good then why change them ? and if you want roller lifters get the GM set from summit and drill some holes in the lifter valley.

or a 355 short block

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MLL-BP3552&autoview=sku

or a 383 shirt block :devil:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MLL-BP3831&autoview=sku
 
you could probably resure everything. minus the pistons if you get this

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=NAL-10105123&autoview=sku

which wouldnt be a bad idea. if everything else (crank, connecting rods) are good then why change them ? and if you want roller lifters get the GM set from summit and drill some holes in the lifter valley.

or a 355 short block

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MLL-BP3552&autoview=sku

or a 383 shirt block :devil:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MLL-BP3831&autoview=sku

1. I am going to go with a 1 pc RMS (roller) block. That means the crank I ahve wont work. Therefore I have no reason to make it a .060 overbore to fit the balacne on teh crank. I can probably sell the whole rotating assembly to help pay for a new one.

2. 383's are such a pain in teh ass, fuck that.

Im not goig to buy a preassembled shortblock. They cost way too much money and use who knows what parts in them. Im a control freak and I want to decide myself what I want and dont want to use. I want nice pistons, nice rods, and a nice crank. Who knows what they use in those? I certainly dont.

Crate engines are for people who dont know enough about components to pick what they want or need or how to pick what's right for them and the best for the money for their purpose.
 
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1. I am going to go with a 1 pc RMS (roller) block. That means the crank I ahve wont work. Therefore I have no reason to make it a .060 overbore to fit the balacne on teh crank. I can probably sell the whole rotating assembly to help pay for a new one.

2. 383's are such a pain in teh ass, fuck that.

Im not goig to buy a preassembled shortblock. They cost way too much money and use who knows what parts in them. Im a control freak and I want to decide myself what I want and dont want to use. I want nice pistons, nice rods, and a nice crank. Who knows what they use in those? I certainly dont.

Crate engines are for people who dont know enough about components to pick what they want or need or how to pick what's right for them and the best for the money for their purpose.

well it seems like your just like me :lol: i hate buying things that are set up a certain way for certain power and yada yada. i buy myself for what i know is going to work for what I want. ill have a fun time when i rebuild my LT1. especially when it comes to choosing a cam. itll take some time...
 
This is what I found when I pulled the passenger side cylinder head off. This is pistons 8, 6, 4, 2 from left to right.

100_6801.jpg


The water in #8 got in there from the car being on an incline and the water jacket wasnt completely drained yet. So when I loosened up all the headbolts some water got into it. I'd have assumed that's what happened to #6 also, except the water in #6 looks.... rusty? Like it's been there a while?

I cleaned it out a little bit to see if the ... stains or whatever tehy are on teh cylinder wall would wipe off...

100_6803.jpg

From near to far, 8 6 4 2.

You can definitely feel it with your fingers. So I got a close up shot.

100_6812.jpg


So I decided to have a look at the cylinder head to see if the chamber looked any different and this is what I found:

HeadPS.jpg


And then Iwent back to get another look at the pistons and you can see #6 is just a little cleaner than #4 here...

100_6806.jpg



Am I barking up teh wrong tree here, or have I found my problem?

I cant tell if the #6 chamber is damaged, or just a little rusty...

Im thinking .060 over was just too much, and I lost #6. Good news is, that's fixable. I can sleeve it. That costs money, though, but this is a 4-bolt main block, good shit. I think I'll try to make it work.

It's possible something got sucked into it and damaged something, but the piston itself doesnt look damaged at all, so I'm leaning towards discounting that.

Either way... it's starting to look now like if I take the block and spend the mega $$$ to sleeve it I can go ahead and reuse everything.

It's going to be a long time before I can afford to get it running again though. But I'm thinking that while it's at the machine shop, I should go ahead and get it zero-decked. Should bring my compression up a tenth or two and improve my quench height to be exactly where it needs to be (Along with cleaning off the deck surface). Compression with a zero-decked block should be at a perfect 9.6/9.7:1 and the quench should be perfect at .040 with a .040 inch headgasket.

I might as well get a little power out of sending it back to the machine shop, no?

Question is, should I start buying all the equipments I need to disassemble and reassemble it myself? My shop charges $400 to put together a long block. I've never put a bottom end together before... It's not hard, but it's very critical. You cant afford to fuck it up.


Oh and to all of you, thanks for hte kind words the other day. I've been pretty distraught the last few days over this (LOTSA $$$ -> Toilet) so if I came off as rude I apologize. I've just been upset. Thanks for the encouragement everyone!
 
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Looks like your head gasket went out, milky white substance. Sorry to hear that man, if you are worried about a crack in the block, have it boiled and magnafluxed, it will find the most minute crack in the block if there is. But how did the rockers rust so quickly? Were they hitting on the valve covers?

There's no oil passages through the deck, a failed head gasket wont cause coolant and oil to mix on a smallblock chevy. It can cause coolant to fill the cylinders and get past the rings that way, but I didnt have any steam running out the exhaust, so the head gasket was sealing, at least as far as the coolant passages were concerned.

You can definately get a decent deal on SBC's though, I'm sure there is a lot of complete 350s in your area for a decent price. Hell, I just got a complete SBF 302 w/ transmission for only $250! Car was DRIVEN to the scrapyard, they were going to pull it and junk it! There's always great deals out there!


Yeah, I could probably buy 350 from a late 80s Camaro with 100k or so miles on it for like $200. But at the end of the day, that's just a 350 from an old camaro. This build was a new one, it was MY build. I picked every single part in it, and gently caressed every single piece before it got to its new home. I did the research on every single part to find out exactly what I needed and/or exactly what I wanted. It was MY baby, you know? My blood sweat and tears (No lie, man, after the other day I just finally lost it. There's only so much a man can take form this stuff!) are in that thing. It is what it is because I made it what it is.

I could just find an old running 350 somewhere that's in good shape and just put my cam and heads on it and get the same performance as what I should have now. But it's just not the same at this point, you know?
 
i though the LT1 had a 4 bolt main WTF man thats lammeeeee.. now i gotta futs with the bottom end ? i didnt wanna pull the engine :cry:


as far as sleeving the block. i wouldnt come to any conclusions until i completely stripped the engine. there could be some other damange somewhere else. because i cant figure that damange in the cylinder wall to cause water to leak somewhere.
 
That's a crack I think. On the other side of the cylinder wall is the water jacket. When stressed (such as a compression or power stroke) it's not that out of the question that it would allow some water through. Especially on a .060 overbore block like mine. I think that's my problem. To me the question is now if anything caused it that I should be concerned about or whether that's the extent of the damage.

Im thinking Im going to go to a new block now. I'm probably going to sell that whole rotating assembly and get a new one for a 1 pc RMS and less of an overbore.
 
i wouldnt go over .040 but i dont think ill even bore out my engine. im not anywhere near that stage yet. but your right. its probably a crack or something like that and when the piston was going down it created suction and sucked some water into the cylinder.
 
i wouldnt go over .040 but i dont think ill even bore out my engine. im not anywhere near that stage yet. but your right. its probably a crack or something like that and when the piston was going down it created suction and sucked some water into the cylinder.

Boring is just done to get a perfectly round cylinder again. It's done out of necessity, not for adding displacement or anything.



By the way, I've got my whole rotating assembly for sale ($500) for anyone who wants it.
 
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