The turbocharger thread

[stevanford1]

Since we have almost ruined another thread (sorry) I thought we should start a new thread on turbochargers. This was the last thing i said.

Utter tosh.

More accurately, Id say your cousin doesnt know what hes doing, and that you know very little about what youre saying. Also, only the fourth-gen Cosmo's came with the 20B, and even then, most came with the 13B instead.

An N1 block will still only handle around 700bhp on stock internals, a stock RB26 around 550bhp.

Honestly i think your the one who has no idea what your talking about. I said EUNOS cosmos came out with a 20B. Eunos cosmos were the last generation cosmos. Previous models were known as mazda cosmos. Yes they had 13b or you could get a 20B. (still the only production car to come out with one). Also you can ask many owners and they will tell you that sequential turbos aren't that good. In Australia Cosmos and FD RX-7's are notorious for having sequential turbos because they fail once you start modifying the car. Secondly i hear of many Supras where they start overboosting once you START modifying them.
I think something we can agree on is that to avoid the pain of sequential turbos is just to get rid of them and put a big single turbo on them.

 

[Seasonone]

What's this thread about? Titled the turbocharger thread but it just seems like it's an argument that should have been handled through PM?

Supra's don't "overboost" once you start modding, there are tons of 2jz's with nothing more than bolt ons doing tons of power. You can do 400RWHP all day long and not worry, and people have been doing over 500RWHP for years now on the stock turbos.


As for the other guy, I don't know what he's trying to say but Manny Cruz did 1200 to the wheels on a stock block RB26. Others have done over 800 to the wheels with no porting and stock cams, not sure where the 550 comes in. That's about what they will do reliably so maybe that's what he's saying?

 

[stevanford1]

What's this thread about? Titled the turbocharger thread but it just seems like it's an argument that should have been handled through PM?

Supra's don't "overboost" once you start modding, there are tons of 2jz's with nothing more than bolt ons doing tons of power. You can do 400RWHP all day long and not worry, and people have been doing over 500RWHP for years now on the stock turbos.


As for the other guy, I don't know what he's trying to say but Manny Cruz did 1200 to the wheels on a stock block RB26. Others have done over 800 to the wheels with no porting and stock cams, not sure where the 550 comes in. That's about what they will do reliably so maybe that's what he's saying?

Fair enough about the supra bit, i have heard of problems but i suppose there are different situations for what has happened. Yeah i wouldn't run more than 550hp on a standard RB26 block, but if he is making more power and its holding up then good luck to him.

 

[Seasonone]

You can't blame an engine because some people don't know how to tune properly, throw a manual boost controller on a supra with a SMIC and stock fuel pump (although good densos from the factory) than turn it up to 2 bar and you will run lean/ping and have problems. Keep the a/f correct and the timing right and you can do a lot from those engines.

http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-Turbocharger-Engineering-Performance/dp/0837601606

It's an old book but it's still a good read, there are many many variables that go into getting max hp out of a turbo setup. Power output is one of the last things you need to worry about when considering how much HP you want to safely try to run.

 

[stevanford1]

You can't blame an engine because some people don't know how to tune properly, throw a manual boost controller on a supra with a SMIC and stock fuel pump (although good densos from the factory) than turn it up to 2 bar and you will run lean/ping and have problems. Keep the a/f correct and the timing right and you can do a lot from those engines.

http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-Turbocharger-Engineering-Performance/dp/0837601606

It's an old book but it's still a good read, there are many many variables that go into getting max hp out of a turbo setup. Power output is one of the last things you need to worry about when considering how much HP you want to safely try to run.

I agree, it was problably someone who doesn't know how to tune. I've actually got that book as a pdf file on my computer.

 

[Nocturnal]

Honestly i think your the one who has no idea what your talking about. I said EUNOS cosmos came out with a 20B. Eunos cosmos were the last generation cosmos. Previous models were known as mazda cosmos. Yes they had 13b or you could get a 20B.

Eunos was simply a Mazda trading name introduced in the 80's, very similar to Lexus. The rest of your statement is essentially repeating what I typed.

Also you can ask many owners and they will tell you that sequential turbos aren't that good.

Im an active member of the MKIV Supra club. No-one, ever has said the stock sequentials are poor in function.

Secondly i hear of many Supras where they start overboosting once you START modifying them.
I think something we can agree on is that to avoid the pain of sequential turbos is just to get rid of them and put a big single turbo on them.

I really dont know where you heard that from, but you couldnt be more wrong.

That's about what they will do reliably so maybe that's what he's saying?

Honestly, whats the point of making power if its unreliable?

 

[stevanford1]

Eunos was simply a Mazda trading name introduced in the 80's, very similar to Lexus. The rest of your statement is essentially repeating what I typed.

Yes i realise that which is why i said before your first post on the matter

. Also i don't know if you have ever heard of a car called a eunos cosmo. They are a mazda,the only production car to ever come out with a 20B.

Remember you posted right after i said that. I know that the 4th generation cosmo only came out with a 20B. I know the 20B was an option. Do you still think i don't know what i'm talking about ? IN MY PERSONAL experience i have heard about poor reliability from the standard turbos from a supra but i will take your word for it.
Look i am going to take this whole situation as a mix up and that we essentially both know what we're talking about.

 

[Seasonone]

Honestly, whats the point of making power if its unreliable?

It's called an electronic boost controller and not driving like some boy racer. You can reliably do 800 to the wheels with a proper tune on the stock block easy. When you're driving around town there is no need for that power so you run back to stock boost. When you feel the need it's back to 800. Sure if you drive at 800 all the time and constantly floor it from light to light it will blow but 550 is far from the top of the reliability #. Have you ever even worked with a skyline? Touched a RB? Have you ever even owned a high hp car?

550 is NOT the max of power or reliable power. Yes they will do 550 reliably but they will also do much more reliably

 

[MattD1zzl3]

I'd like to chime in with my own question now, do any of you have any experiance with (or resources for) the turbocharging of a small block chevrolet?

It would have to be rear-mounted, no room in the engine bay, but i assume the motor could take some boost without blowing (i was thinking 5-7... lbs? psi? forgot how it was measured.)

Superchargers are so overdone, i want to be different.

[youtube=ZB_YA1O0scs]Like this[/youtube]

 

[stevanford1]

I'd like to chime in with my own question now, do any of you have any experiance with (or resources for) the turbocharging of a small block chevrolet?

It would have to be rear-mounted, no room in the engine bay, but i assume the motor could take some boost without blowing (i was thinking 5-7... lbs? psi? forgot how it was measured.)

Superchargers are so overdone, i want to be different.

[youtube=ZB_YA1O0scs]Like this[/youtube]

I would run a twin turbo V8 setup (one turbo on each side of the engine). I would run Garrett t28 turbos and run them at about 10psi.
Personally i have not had any experience with LT1s. I ASSUME that a LT1 is similar to a LS1 which is why i would do that.

 

[The_Finn]

there is so many resources on turbocharging SBCs on the internet it hurts my brain. But if you want to get into the nitty gritty i suggest

Maximum Boost: Corky Bell
Street Turbocharging: Mark Werner
Supercharging, Turbocharging and Nitrous Oxide Performance: Earl Davis
Turbochargers: Turbo Design, Sizing & Matching, etc... : Hugh MacInnes

those books will give you alot of practical information about turbo sizing and intercooler design as well as other information for desiging your own system. Off the top of my head given that you have a 5.7L LT1 that gives each bank a displacement of 2.8 a GT28RS is going to be on the small side taking a WAG i would go with something in the GT30 range

onto this whole remote mount thing:

while i understand what you have limited space in your engine bay i just can't get behind a remote mount turbo setup. Granted i don't have your car infront of me but imagine something more inline with say the APS TT GTO system would make more sense with the tubos mounted way back almost behind the block near the trans tunnel where there should be some room.

The other style of TT setup that appears to be pretty popular with the Z28 crowd is front mounted turbos that are perpendicular to the axis of the crank shaft LINK

 

[Nocturnal]

You can reliably do 800 to the wheels with a proper tune on the stock block easy.

800awhp, which equates to 920 at the crank...no you cant.

Have you ever even worked with a skyline? Touched a RB?

Yes on both counts, the latter being an RB25 swap into an S14.

Have you ever even owned a high hp car?

Define ''high'', afterall its relative. What is ''high'' for one engine is nothing to another. For what its worth, my last 200SX had the power:weight of a 996 GT3 RS. On a CA18, I guess you could define that as ''high''. As for engines Ive worked on, is a 570rwhp 2JZ any good? Thats a reliable, all-day 570rwhp I might add, not a dyno queen figure.

550 is NOT the max of power or reliable power. Yes they will do 550 reliably but they will also do much more reliably

Not for very long, and hence not reliably. Are you the type of person who takes your dyno chart to the pub to boast to friends?

 

[kaBOOMn]

Turbo or Supercharger? Blond or Brunette. No matter what we picked we are both winners And a Red head is a Turbo and Supercharged engine like a Delta S4 or a 'lil Nissan March superturbo

 

[73GMCSprint]

I'd like to chime in with my own question now, do any of you have any experiance with (or resources for) the turbocharging of a small block chevrolet?

It would have to be rear-mounted, no room in the engine bay, but i assume the motor could take some boost without blowing (i was thinking 5-7... lbs? psi? forgot how it was measured.)

Superchargers are so overdone, i want to be different.

You want rear mount? Check these guys out: http://www.ststurbo.com/.

I personally know a few people who run their stuff and love it. Anyone who says rear mount doesn't work is wrong. STS is probably the best (maybe the only) company focusing on rear mount designs. The car owners I've talked to say they're great to work with as far as design/ordering/tech support/etc.

 

[thedguy]

It's called an electronic boost controller and not driving like some boy racer. You can reliably do 800 to the wheels with a proper tune on the stock block easy. When you're driving around town there is no need for that power so you run back to stock boost. When you feel the need it's back to 800. Sure if you drive at 800 all the time and constantly floor it from light to light it will blow but 550 is far from the top of the reliability #. Have you ever even worked with a skyline? Touched a RB? Have you ever even owned a high hp car?

550 is NOT the max of power or reliable power. Yes they will do 550 reliably but they will also do much more reliably

You guys keep bringing up stock block, are you guys only talking of the physical block or what I, and most others know, as a "bottom end" I.e. block, crank, pistons, rods?

I've browsed the skylines australia forums and they seem to fee 550 on a stock bottom end is about the limit before problems arise.

I'd like to chime in with my own question now, do any of you have any experiance with (or resources for) the turbocharging of a small block chevrolet?

It would have to be rear-mounted, no room in the engine bay, but i assume the motor could take some boost without blowing (i was thinking 5-7... lbs? psi? forgot how it was measured.)

Superchargers are so overdone, i want to be different.

By virtue of owning a small block, you can't be different. If you want different and room to turbo, get a 3800 Series 2 (SuperCharged) from a Pontiac in the junkyard and get the bellhousing from a 96+ v6 camaro as well as a few other miscellaneous bits. You might save 20lbs, but you'll be different!

I have to admit the idea has had me tempted on a few occasions. V6 camaro's have way too much engine space (I could smuggle illegals under the hood of one of those!)