Looks like the GT-R isn't so great after all...

Subaru Impreza WRX STi - 34,995 MSRP before options
Audi S4 Cabrio (no sedan in the line up) - 57,125.00 MSRP before options
Now take like 5K off the Cabrio since Sedans are generally cheaper and you are still left with 52,125 which is 18K more than the STi.

Still think more expensive is better? And keep in mind that I'm an Audi fanboy but an S4 willl get its ass handed to it by an STi.

Sit in an Sri for a few minutes, compare it to the audi. Now look at the Sti and tellme the audi ain't nicer
 
Sit in an Sri for a few minutes, compare it to the audi. Now look at the Sti and tellme the audi ain't nicer

Audi has a nicer interior (even my 2004 A4 is nicer than an 08 STi) however these cars are not generally bought for the nice interior and comfy ride considering that an S4 has a harder suspension than an A4 and they aren't exactly soft. On a separate issue an Exige S with similar performance to a Porsche will be much cheaper :)
 
Sit in an Sri for a few minutes, compare it to the audi. Now look at the Sti and tellme the audi ain't nicer

Depends. If I'm a in my early 30's I may pick the Audi but when I was back in my 20's I would have dug the STI far more.
 
Still think more expensive is better? And keep in mind that I'm an Audi fanboy but an S4 willl get its ass handed to it by an STi.

...and a Chevy Cobalt SS Turbo will smoke the STi. :p

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Motortrend has covered the story:

http://wot.motortrend.com/6296554/a...ill-it-be-too-late-for-some-buyers/index.html

They're missing a few vital bits, but there's also an important part:

Of course, already pointed out in the thread are the contents of the owner's manual and warranty information booklet. Both explicitly state what is and isn't covered. It's the warranty information booklet that best applies to Septskyline case and explains on page 30, under the "What is not covered" section:

"This warranty does not cover damage, failures or corrosion resulting from... Operating the vehicle with the Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC off), except when rocking vehicle when stuck in mud or snow..."

To get the word straight from the horse's mouth, we turned to our source at Nissan who summed up the situation: "Switching VDC off doesn't void the warranty nor does running the Launch Control on the car. However, if someone switches off VDC, enables Launch Control and then breaks something while doing this, we wouldn't pay (under warranty) for the specific parts that break during this action."

So it will only void the warranty if you break something? Great warranty there. It will cover everything that doesn't break. :lol:
 
So it will only void the warranty if you break something? Great warranty there. It will cover everything that doesn't break. :lol:

I thought the same thing when I read that. What good is a warranty that only covers things if nothing goes wrong? It's like getting insurance and only being covered if you never make a claim.
 
Until it gets to a turn and understeers off the road ;) Not to mention FWD is just plain wrong!

Those times were on a road course! :p But seriously, the SS Turbo is impressively fast and apparently handles extremely well - hence the whooping of AWD cars twice its price.
 
Audi has a nicer interior (even my 2004 A4 is nicer than an 08 STi) however these cars are not generally bought for the nice interior and comfy ride considering that an S4 has a harder suspension than an A4 and they aren't exactly soft. On a separate issue an Exige S with similar performance to a Porsche will be much cheaper :)

The problem is also psychological: You'll always know that you went for the cheaper option - and everybody else knows it, too, probably suspecting you couldn't afford more.

That is exactly the reason why Audi, BMW or Mercedes can sell their cars for a higher price, even though at first look they seem to offer not enough to justify it: They offer status and long-term satisfaction. The magic term is "brand consciousness".

When you go for the cheaper option, some day you're gonna be unsatisfied with it - alone because the fact that you and everyone knows it was cheaper. It will happen, I guarantee you - no matter how clever you felt at first for having chosen the cheaper option.

Also mind that you always give a statement to other car enthusiasts with the car you're driving. Inside your mind you are aware of that and therefore it is always effecting you, if you want to or not.

Only someone who is completely uninterested in cars and only sees them as a transport from A to B, can be uneffected by such psychological backgrounds and only go for what is cheaper while still being satisfied with it ;)
 
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Ummm... I could've bought a car for $60k when I bought my EVO, but instead decided to buy one for $40k and spend $20k on it. I don't give a shit that's it's cheaper because everytime I put my foot down I giggle like a school girl and get all happy in the front of my pants. Knowing there's very few cars on the road who can keep with me to 100km/h is pretty cool.
 
If you say so :)

But another thing: If I observed it right, you have a slightly different "car culture" in Australia, which also results from the proximity to Japan. Japanese cars play a much, much larger role there and don't have that "neat but boring" image as much as they have it here. Correct me, if I'm wrong.
 
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So it will only void the warranty if you break something? Great warranty there. It will cover everything that doesn't break. :lol:
I thought the same thing when I read that. What good is a warranty that only covers things if nothing goes wrong? It's like getting insurance and only being covered if you never make a claim.
You guys... :rolleyes:

What they mean is this. You turn off the VDC to make a launch control start. It goes well, nothing breaks. Then, you continue to use the car normally. Something else breaks, which generally falls under the warranty. Nissan comes and checks the car, sees that you used the LC, but understands that the broken part is in no way connected to that. If so, Nissan will replace that part for free.

So what they're saying is that you don't generally void all your warranty forever if you drive without VDC on for one single time. Only when you do it in a situation that is described as not viable in the manual and then something breaks because of that, Nissan won't pay that part.
 
There's a similar situation in the world of firearms. If you load your Heckler und Koch pistol with +P+ rounds (i.e., bullets with greater than normal powder charges behind them, thus causing more wear and potential for weapon damage while at the same time delivering more energy to the target) and something breaks, they won't fix it. You CAN do it, and it will fire - but it is not a recommended procedure and if it blows up it's your responsibility.
 
You guys... :rolleyes:

What they mean is this. You turn off the VDC to make a launch control start. It goes well, nothing breaks. Then, you continue to use the car normally. Something else breaks, which generally falls under the warranty. Nissan comes and checks the car, sees that you used the LC, but understands that the broken part is in no way connected to that. If so, Nissan will replace that part for free.

So what they're saying is that you don't generally void all your warranty forever if you drive without VDC on for one single time. Only when you do it in a situation that is described as not viable in the manual and then something breaks because of that, Nissan won't pay that part.

The point is, if the car is just setting there turned off, nothing should ever break for a long long time. It's only when you use the car that the possibility of breakages can occur. If Nissan can void your warranty for using a system designed into the car, then they can void it for anything else. Blow a speaker? Well, you were probably blasting the radio too load, warranty void. Break the AC button? Well, you probably pushed it too hard, warranty void. Shit like that.

Maybe this guy's GT-R had a faulty transmission and the LC caused it to break. I heard this very same story from another potential GT-R owner a few months ago about his buddy's GT-R that broke down. Transmission. Out of pocket, $20k to replace, no warranty coverage. Same story.

I'm just surprised Nissan would turn down GT-R owners like this. This car is their flagship super car. They're not building very many, you'd think they would try their best to keep the owners happy. Not many people would pay $70,000 for a Nissan. Probably not a good idea to alienate them all.
 
That makes me wonder: Has anyone ever sued the weapons industry in the USA, because somebody got accidentally killed by a gun?

I mean, they sue McDonald's for getting fat or the tobacco industry for getting cancer, too. So the question is not really farfetched.
 
People sue all the time for *deliberately* getting killed by a gun, but other than in liberal states it usually doesn't go anywhere. The gun control advocates in the US recently took that tack to try to bring down the arms industry like they did the tobacco industry, but that got shot down (no pun intended) in a hurry. It would have lead to every manufacturer of every product ever made of any kind, including cars, computers, or Nerf toys, being responsible for any use, including unauthorized or illogical uses, fully and financially - i.e., if some kid died from eating an entire case of Nerf footballs, the Nerf company would be held responsible.

That said, if you want to see some truly great examples of ass-covering legalese, you have but to pick up a US firearm manual to find it.

By the way, here's the warranty for a Colt pistol, via: http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/lifetime_agreement.asp

Colt will repair any factory defective part(s) of your Colt firearm, but cosmetic corrections and grip replacement will be made only during the first year, in accordance with the Colt Warranty Statement which you will find in your Colt instruction manual.

LIMITATIONS
This agreement will not apply to your Colt firearm when it is altered, abused, willfully damaged or damaged by overpressure ammunition. Moreover, this agreement will not apply to those parts of your Colt firearm which have been ?tuned? or ?gunsmithed? for performance other than customized tuning and other services provided by Colt Custom Gun Shop.
This agreement is not transferable; its benefits apply only to the original retail purchaser for firearms manufactured after 1996.

The owner's manual for Colt firearms says that you *can* fire overpressure (+P, +P+, ++P++) ammo in the weapon, but that it is not a good idea and that damage to the weapon may result - which would not be covered under warranty.

No lawsuits that I am aware of have originated from this (or at least no successful ones), so I doubt that the parallel to the GT-R that you speculated would come to pass.

Also, note that H&K, the German gun maker, is the "cheaper" alternative to something from the Colt Custom Shop. And the Colt is actually the inferior weapon in many cases.
 
If Nissan can void your warranty for using a system designed into the car, then they can void it for anything else.
So what's the alternative? Should they not put the VDC off function in the car? What happens when you're stuck in snow, and you need the VDC to be off in order to get something to slip under your tires? What would you say if you were that very GT-R owner, you would get your manual out and it would say "Dear GT-R owner. Your vehicle is equipped with a vehicle dynamics control (VDC), which prevents the wheels from spinning. We are aware that when stuck in mud or snow, it would be useful to turn VDC off, but due to the potential abuse of the feature by buyers, you can't. Good luck!"? Would that be better?

Maybe this guy's GT-R had a faulty transmission and the LC caused it to break. I heard this very same story from another potential GT-R owner a few months ago about his buddy's GT-R that broke down. Transmission. Out of pocket, $20k to replace, no warranty coverage. Same story.
I think that the majority of transmissions will break when you use LC continuously. That's why they say you shouldn't. They build the VDC off button into the car because it can be useful in certain situations. They tell you not to use it otherwise. If you still do that and a related part breaks: your problem! Given an already faulty transmission goes during normal use, and you never ever switched VDC off, Nissan surely wouldn't have a problem replacing it.

Given an already faulty transmission goes and you did use LC a few times, I doubt Nissan would replace it for free. That however is the same thing for every product on this planet. I sometimes have these thoughs when I modify computer parts. Let's take a power supply for example, where I often change the fan. Let's assume the PSU has a problem from the factory that will make it break immediately. When I open it to change the fan, I lose warranty. There is no way the manufacturer would give me a new supply, as I voided the warranty by opening it. The fact that my modification had no influence on the actual breaking of the PSU does not play a role.

I'm just surprised Nissan would turn down GT-R owners like this. This car is their flagship super car. They're not building very many, you'd think they would try their best to keep the owners happy. Not many people would pay $70,000 for a Nissan. Probably not a good idea to alienate them all.
As every manufacturer on this planet, they do have a budget on certain things. Giving out 20k$ transmissions that went due to misuse just to keep the owners happy probably won't look so good in your books.
 
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Nissan shouldn't of put the LC feature on the car knowing that it is so brutal on the drivetrain. Clearly it's too hard on the gearbox and they knew people would use and abuse it, but they put it in the car anyway, then they refuse to have anything to do with it when something goes wrong due to its missuse. I'm sorry, but that is bullshit in any language.
 
Well, the question is why they put in a launch control in the first place. I suppose they did it so you can reach the claimed 0-60 if you have to for some reason. Yet, it should be obvious that you shouldn't do it regularly, as it is very hard on the drivetrain.

As I have shown before with the BMW M3, it's not that uncommon on cars like these. Still, Nissan didn't even put this function into the handbook as opposed to the Germans to prevent misuse. If owners do it either way, it's their problem.
 
Until it gets to a turn and understeers off the road ;) Not to mention FWD is just plain wrong!

For the amount of power thecobalt as makes it's fine. AWD would just waste more power, requiring more to just make up for the extra losses. Unfortunately it's an awesome motor stuck to a drive stystem that can't really take advantage of the significant room it has left on the table. :(

BTW, sorry for the worse than usual typing and spelling errors, I'm doing quite a bit of posting from my iPod
 
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