Is the Veyron a "comfortable" car?

the Interceptor said:
So let me get this straight ... petrolheads say they don't like the Veyron because it is too disconnected from the experience of driving, it is not loud enough and has too many creature comforts to be a supercar. Now somebody comes along and says that it actually is loud, is not as easy to drive as a golf and doesn't have that much comfort. And the petrolheads reaction is that he still doesn't like it, because it isn't comfortable?
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The way I see it is because comfort is one of the biggest reasons why alot of people like this car. I can't speak for the other "petrolheads" but I do love the fact that it can go so fast and be so comfortable, as everyone said it would be. And creature comfort in and of itself in such a fast car IS a plus in my book, not a minus.

In that thread of Zonda vs Veyron, almost everyone assumed that the Veyron will be alot more comfortable to drive and that single reason made alot of people choose Veyron over the Zonda. But now we have some word that the Veyron may not be as comfortable as everyone claim it is. Because the Veyron was not designed to go around corners as fast as possible with no regard to driver comfort; it was designed to go so fast and to be very comfortable. And I love that...to be able to go as fast as the Veyron can go AND be able to drive it with ease and comfort...which I think is a main point of the Veyron, but now that it may have lost that ease and comfort....it's a little disappointing.

Obviously, C&D may have forgot to set the suspension or was plain biased and so without first hand experience it's a bit pointless to argue amongst us. But nevertheless, it's interesting that one of the strongest qualities of the Veyron has been put into question.
 
SL65 said:
But at the end of the day - does it really matter if its not as quiet as a Porsche GT2? Can a Porsche do 253MPH? NUP!
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WRONG... One of these Porsches can. Unlike that bloated VW, said Porsche has some merit too...

Porsche962.jpg


Porsche9622.jpg
 
That's not a Porsche, it's a Dauer (962 LM). And it only did 251 mph in Ehra-Lessien. If you're gonna split hair, do it right.
 
Besides, if they have to throw racing cars in now, their argumentation becomes really desperate...
 
Yeah, but a RUF can be based on a Porsche to the same extent, and it will still be a RUF. Like I said, we're splitting hair here.
 
the Interceptor said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dauer_962
It's not more of a Porsche than a RUF is. And MacGuffin is right - if you need to throw a road-converted racecar at the Veyron to prove your point, it gets kinda ridiculous.
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It's a Porsche with a few creature comforts thrown in by a company that used to race them (Dauer was one of the Teams that competed with 962s), so it still is a Porsche no matter how much you twist and turn it. A Ruf (thats not a converted Porsche, thus not a Ruf) is built from the ground up by Ruf, using only a bare body shell from Porsche, the rest of the parts are made by Ruf.

Also, it's not a racing car anymore, it's a road car and thoroughly so. According to EVO it was no more difficult to drive around than a Boxster. Does it in the end really matter if you start with a racing car or a flawed design that was never originally intended for production?

Plus, SL65's post implied that no Porsche was that fast, which was the point of my reply.
 
MacGuffin said:
Besides, if they have to throw racing cars in now, their argumentation becomes really desperate...
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Meh, it always seems to be "us vs them." There are definitely haters and fanboys on both sides. While I don't cream my pants everytime I hear the word Veyron, I don't hate it either with every fiber of my being. It's really a unique car that has redefined that a GT/supercar can be (if you throw enough money at something :p). But on the other hand, it's probably not in my top 10 list.

I think it'd be good if the two sides can come to a better understanding of the other side, instead of being like: "oh look our side is winning the other guys are getting desperate! ha ha we win the internet veyron war!" :p
 
marcos_eirik said:
It's a Porsche with a few creature comforts thrown in by a company that used to race them (Dauer was one of the Teams that competed with 962s), so it still is a Porsche no matter how much you twist and turn it. A Ruf (thats not a converted Porsche, thus not a Ruf) is built from the ground up by Ruf, using only a bare body shell from Porsche, the rest of the parts are made by Ruf.
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RUF
Alois Sr.'s involvement in the auto industry had a distinct effect on his son, Alois Ruf Jr., who became a sports car enthusiast and in 1960 began servicing and restoring Porsche automobiles out of his father's garage. In 1974 when Alois Sr. died, Alois Jr. took control of the business and quickly decided to do away with the bus company, service garage and gas station, switching the company over to being solely focused on work with Porsche vehicles. A year later in 1975, the first Ruf tuned Porsches appeared for sale. Ruf debuted their first complete model in 1977, a tuned version of Porsche's 930 with a stroked 3.3 litre motor. This was followed in 1978 by Ruf's first complete non-turbo Porsche, a naturally aspirated 911 with a stroked 3.2 litre motor producing 217 horsepower.
In the years since, the company has made a major mark on the automotive world by producing exceptionally powerful and exclusive Porsche based vehicles including the 1987 CTR, which set the record as the world's fastest production automobile at the time of its release and the later the CTR2 which was again recognized as one of the fastest road-legal vehicles available anywhere in the world.
In April 2007, Ruf released the new CTR3 to celebrate the company's new plant in Bahrain and as a 20th anniversary celebration of the original CTR.
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CTR3
Continuing the Ruf tradition of modifying Porsche automobiles, the CTR3 shares both the body panels and engine from Porsche. For the first time, however, it features an Ruf designed body.
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marcos_eirik said:
Also, it's not a racing car anymore, it's a road car and thoroughly so. According to EVO it was no more difficult to drive around than a Boxster. Does it in the end really matter if you start with a racing car or a flawed design that was never originally intended for production?
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So you do have a negative attitude towards the Veyron? Besides, do you need a proper reason to build a car? Ford built the GT 40 because they failed to buy Ferrari. Is that a good reason, and is the car bad because of that?
marcos_eirik said:
Plus, SL65's post implied that no Porsche was that fast, which was the point of my reply.
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Yes, and I said that this isn't a Porsche and that it can't go as fast. Also, you never addressed the latter.
 
the Interceptor said:
So you do have a negative attitude towards the Veyron? Besides, do you need a proper reason to build a car? Ford built the GT 40 because they failed to buy Ferrari. Is that a good reason, and is the car bad because of that?
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No, but when you do, why not start with something to do the job, rather than something that wasn't supposed to do it at all. When Ford designed the GT40 they built it from the ground up to beat Ferrari, they didn't start with a flawed design and modify it. I don't get your point with this example at all...

On the subject of Ruf, you forgot to include the important bit first paragraph in that Wikipedia entry. They only get bare body shells from Porsche which are then given a Ruf chassis number upon arrival, the rest of the parts they use are either made in house or sourced from the same sub suppliers as Porsche use. For instance, most of their lightweight body panels are made in house, their engine blocks and internals are custom made to handle the higher power outputs. Finally they finish off and fits it all themselves. They also do conversions, but these are not regarded as Rufs because they still have the original Porsche chassis number. So from a legal point of view these are still Porsches. It is also a very varying degree to how much they have been modifies. Hence why Ruf usually leaves the Porsche badge in place, unless the customer wants it to be Ruf badged.

Sum up: (from a legal point of view, which I share...)
Ruf chassis number = Ruf
Porsche chassis number with conversion = Porsche, no matter how much is done to it... (Thus meaning that Dauer is still a Porsche)

The CTR3 does not share any body panels with any Porsche. The chassis from the front to the A-pillars are sourced from Porsche, but all of the rest is specifically built by Ruf.
 
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marcos_eirik said:
No, but when you do, why not start with something to do the job, rather than something that wasn't supposed to do it at all. When Ford designed the GT40 they built it from the ground up to beat Ferrari, they didn't start with a flawed design and modify it. I don't get your point with this example at all...
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My point is that you don't need a proper reason to build a good car. Also, doesn't the fact that the first design of the Veyron actually was never meant to see the day of light as a car didn't stop them from fulfilling the demanded specs make it even more impressive?

marcos_eirik said:
On the subject of Ruf, you forgot to include the important bit first paragraph in that Wikipedia entry. They only get bare body shells from Porsche which are then given a Ruf chassis number upon arrival, the rest of the parts they use are either made in house or sourced from the same sub suppliers as Porsche use. For instance, most of their lightweight body panels are made in house, their engine blocks and internals are custom made to handle the higher power outputs. Finally they finish off and fits it all themselves. They also do conversions, but these are not regarded as Rufs because they still have the original Porsche chassis number. So from a legal point of view these are still Porsches. It is also a very varying degree to how much they have been modifies. Hence why Ruf usually leaves the Porsche badge in place, unless the customer wants it to be Ruf badged.

Sum up: (from a legal point of view, which I share...)
Ruf chassis number = Ruf
Porsche chassis number with conversion = Porsche, no matter how much is done to it... (Thus meaning that Dauer is still a Porsche)

The CTR3 does not share any body panels with any Porsche. The chassis from the front to the A-pillars are sourced from Porsche, but all of the rest is specifically built by Ruf.
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The thing is that - just like a RUF - the 962 LM models got a new chassis number and therefore, for German law, were cars made by the Dauer Sportwagen GmbH, and not by Porsche.

So do we keep this offtopic discussion up, or do we come back to the question whether the Veyron is comfortable or not?
 
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the Interceptor said:
My point is that you don't need a proper reason to build a good car. Also, doesn't the fact that the first design of the Veyron actually was never meant to see the day of light as a car didn't stop them from fulfilling the demanded specs make it even more impressive?
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Yes, it is, but if they were going to make something that fast, why not use a design that is aerodynamically stable already? And not one that needs sophisticated electronics and active airfoils to retain that stability. Would have saved them from a lot of grief. So to me it ends up being an answer to a question nobody asked, thus making it a bit of an automotive "so what?" like the SLR.

the Interceptor said:
The thing is that just as a RUF, the 962 LM models got a new chassis number and therefore, for German law, were cars made by the Dauer Sportwagen GmbH, and not by Porsche.
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Are you sure they got a new chassis number by Dauer? In which case i stand corrected. Anyway, I was reasonably sure all of the cars they converted for road use only got a new interior with some sound deadening, some new settings for the already all-adjustable suspension, and a kinder drive train. With a slightly redesigned body on top of that. And that they didn't touch the chassis. Because the thing about the Dauer was that to a large extent the Porsche factory was thoroughly involved in the project with both funding and R&D (Porsche really wanted that '94 Le Mans win as a fitting finale to the 962's legacy)

the Interceptor said:
So do we keep this offtopic discussion up, or do we come back to the question whether the Veyron is comfortable or not?
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The Veyron is probably more comfortable relative to other supercars, having more noise insulation and a plusher interior. But when you have wheels that huge with very low profile tires you will get very high levels of tire roar at high speeds no matter what you do. But hey, if it bothers you; Wear earplugs...
 
marcos_eirik said:
Yes, it is, but if they were going to make something that fast, why not use a design that is aerodynamically stable already? And not one that needs sophisticated electronics and active airfoils to retain that stability. Would have saved them from a lot of grief. So to me it ends up being an answer to a question nobody asked, thus making it a bit of an automotive "so what?" like the SLR.
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Very simple reason: their boss said "I want it to look like that". Scientifically that's not exactly a clever concept of handling the matter, but it happens all over the world every day.

marcos_eirik said:
Are you sure they got a new chassis number by Dauer? In which case i stand corrected. Anyway, I was reasonably sure all of the cars they converted for road use only got a new interior with some sound deadening, some new settings for the already all-adjustable suspension, and a kinder drive train. With a slightly redesigned body on top of that. And that they didn't touch the chassis. Because the thing about the Dauer was that to a large extent the Porsche factory was thoroughly involved in the project with both funding and R&D (Porsche really wanted that '94 Le Mans win as a fitting finale to the 962's legacy).
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Yes, I am. Check this link. The numbers in brackets are the old (Porsche) chassis numbers, the new ones are the Dauer chassis numbers.

marcos_eirik said:
The Veyron is probably more comfortable relative to other supercars, having more noise insulation and a plusher interior. But when you have wheels that huge with very low profile tires you will get very high levels of tire roar at high speeds no matter what you do. But hey, if it bothers you; Wear earplugs...
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The tires are a problem for noise and comfort, especially if they're meant to resist such high speeds. Still, I think the Veyron wasn't meant to disconnect you from the outside world whatsoever.
 
nist7 said:
Meh, it always seems to be "us vs them." There are definitely haters and fanboys on both sides. While I don't cream my pants everytime I hear the word Veyron, I don't hate it either with every fiber of my being. It's really a unique car that has redefined that a GT/supercar can be (if you throw enough money at something :p). But on the other hand, it's probably not in my top 10 list.

I think it'd be good if the two sides can come to a better understanding of the other side, instead of being like: "oh look our side is winning the other guys are getting desperate! ha ha we win the internet veyron war!" :p
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I agree with you but if there is a discussion about it, it should at least be done with common sense and relevant arguments...

Strictly speaking, if someone would say "I just don't like it", I would not argue with him for a second, because that's everything that needs to be said.

It's when they want to substantiate that subjective statement, when things usually are getting ridiculous.
 
how can you possibly critisize something like this for NOT HAVING A CIGARETTE LIGHTER??? :wtf:
 
Yeah really! It doesn't need a radar detector, it just has to go 350kph in town so that the speed camera stops working!
 
I love how this has got so many ppl upset that they have to drag this discussion for 4 pages now.
 
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