FIAT and Citroen-Peugeot merger, unreliability world record ahead!

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Bericht - Peugeot und Fiat loten Zusammenschluss aus
Samstag, 13. Dezember 2008, 16:45 Uhr

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Mailand, 13. Dez (Reuters) - Frankreich und Italien loten wegen der Krise in der Automobilindustrie offenbar einen Zusammenschluss ihrer Hersteller PSA Peugeot-Citroen(PEUP.PA: Kurs) und Fiat(FIA.MI: Kurs) aus. Die Regierungschefs beider L?nder, Nicolas Sarkozy und Silvio Berlusconi, h?tten das Thema bereits angepackt, berichtete die Zeitung "Milano Finanza" in ihrer Samstagsausgabe unter Berufung auf Berlusconi nahestehende Kreise. Das B?ro des italienischen Ministerpr?sidenten pr?fe derzeit m?gliche Hilfen f?r die Autobranche.

Eine Fusion k?nnte auch Thema eines f?r Mittwoch geplanten Treffens Berlusconis mit dem Chef des gr??ten Fiat-Aktion?rs IFI, John Elkann, sein, hie? es weiter. Die Regierung in Rom wollte sich zu dem Artikel nicht ?u?ern. Auch Fiat und PSA nahmen keine Stellung.

Aus dem Zusammenschluss von Peugeot und Fiat w?rde der weltweit viertgr??te Autokonzern hervorgehen. Im vergangenen Jahr stellten beide zusammen 6,2 Millionen Fahrzeuge her. Dies entspricht etwa der Produktionszahl des deutschen Rivalen Volkswagen (VOWG.DE: Kurs).

Analysten zufolge ist ein Zusammenschluss von Peugeot und Fiat sinnvoll, da beide Unternehmen einen hohen Marktanteil bei Kleinwagen haben. Die Konzerne f?hren bereits zwei Joint-Venture zusammen. Fiat-Chef Sergio Marchionne hatte vergangene Woche erkl?rt, dass Fiat einen Partner brauche, um langfristig zu ?berleben.

(Reporter: Ian Simpson; bearbeitet von Sebastian Engel; redigiert von Angelika Stricker)


(here comes google!)

Report - Peugeot and Fiat explore merging
Saturday, 13 December 2008, 16:45 clock

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Milan, 13 December (Reuters) - France and Italy due to plumb the crisis in the automobile industry apparently a merger of its manufacturer PSA Peugeot-Citroen (PEUP.PA: Course) and Fiat (FIA.MI: Course) from. The leaders of both countries, Nicolas Sarkozy, and Silvio Berlusconi, had already addressed the issue, reported the newspaper Milano Finanza in its Saturday edition, relying on close associates of Berlusconi circles. The office of Italian Prime Minister currently examining possible support for the auto industry.

A merger could also be the subject of a meeting planned for Wednesday with the head of Berlusconi's largest shareholder IFI Fiat, John Elkann, be it further stated. The government in Rome wanted to comment on the article does not say. Fiat and PSA also took no position.

From the merger of Peugeot and Fiat would be the world's fourth largest auto group state. In the past year, together 6.2 million vehicles. This roughly corresponds to the production number of German rival Volkswagen (VOWG.DE: Course).

According to analysts, a merger of Peugeot and Fiat makes sense because both companies a high market share in small cars have. The companies already run two joint-venture together. Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne had said last week that Fiat needs a partner to survive long term.

(Reporter: Ian Simpson, edited by Sebastian Engel, edited by Angelika Stricker)


Let me sum it up with a quote from IRC:

<&Adunaphel> lol, french-italian cars
<&Adunaphel> one sets itself on fire, the other gets set on fire
<&Adunaphel> instant fire!
 
i dunno citroens latest cars seem to me to be pretty well made
 
"According to analysts, a merger of Peugeot and Fiat makes sense because both companies a high market share in small cars have."

Yoda Google is.
 
I like FIAT's and I really hope this doesn't happen.
 
The question is: What is better?

a) Italien design with French engineering?
b) French design with Italian engineering?

Sounds like a choice between Devil and Beelzebub to me :mrgreen:
 
So is Peugeot going to neuter FIAT like they did to Citreon?
 
there's something to neuter in Fiat lineup?
 
Italian design with French engineering is better, as Italian engineering (as others have commented) tends to be self-igniting.

Adunaphel: I do wonder how they're going manufacture cars when they're basically a ball of flame moving down the assembly line... :D
 
Nooo... this does mean that the French will own Maserati again. Not to mention that they will now own Ferrari.
 
there's something to neuter in Fiat lineup?

Alfa Romeo (which has been considering going back to RWD for some of it's future models), Maserati, and Ferrari.

In the past five years, I've owned an Alfa Romeo (GT V6) and a Citroen (C2 VTS) .... both have not missed a beat. The only problem I had with the Alfa was the Blaupunkt CD changer (which kept jamming). The whole reliability problem with these brands is overstated ... usually by people who have no direct experience of them. <_<
 
Of course they have improved in time.

But I must say they hoestly earned their bad reputation of being unreliable over decades, no doubt about that. The name FIAT can either be interpreted in German as "Fehler In Allen Teilen" (Faults in all parts) or in English as "Fix It Again Tony". Such mockery has to be earned and its hard to get rid of it again... :)

Not to mention that maintenance was a real challenge to the mechanics. Changing the spark plugs on some French cars was considered one of the world's last great adventures by a German radio satire show ;)

Indeed nowadays Renaults or Peugeots or Fiats have improved. You don't see people anymore at traffic lights with hazards on, banging with a hammer on their Peugeot engine block to make it start (no kidding, I had a friend who's parents hat a Peugeot 504 and they kept a hammer in the car for such purposes - Jezza would have loved it) :D

But they still weren't able to catch up on their Japanese or German rivals. In every reliability statistic they are in the bottom half, together with the Koreans. They still simply have more faults and their garages have a really bad reputation, too.

The only brands that have been constantly worse in those statistics, are Chrysler and Rover - the latter having disappeared by now and the other one about to do the same.
 
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The name FIAT can either be interpreted in German as "Fehler In Allen Teilen" (Faults in all parts) or in English as "Fix It Again Tony".

Or as "F?r Italiener ausreichende Technik" (good enough technology for Italians)... :lol:
 
ALLRIGHT! now cars will come with rust and fire directly from the showrooms, maybe even in the folders!
 
So is Peugeot going to neuter FIAT like they did to Citreon?

Yeah this makes me sad; the PSA merger meant Citroen lost their funk (which arguably they are only just refinding) and there hasn't been a decent Peugeot since the 406 coupe.

The prospect of that happening to FIAT makes me sad - despite the reliability issues, Fiat're putting out some good cars at the moment (the Panda, the 500, the Grande Punto) and I wouldn't want to see them put in a rut like Citroen was.

Also three sets of line-ups featuring the same platforms would be horrible. It's bad enough all the PSA cars have the same underpinnings.
 
Yeah this makes me sad; the PSA merger meant Citroen lost their funk (which arguably they are only just refinding) and there hasn't been a decent Peugeot since the 406 coupe.

Arguable indeed. Their current designs are too bland mechanically and stylistically. Old Citroens really had charm.

1974_Citroen_D-Special_02.jpg


Citro


Birotor_GS.jpg
 
No one said "Lancia" so far. As a passionate driver of old Themas who didn't like many of the newer ones I just thought they could get brilliant again. The new looks interesting.

And to say something positive about the merge: I'd really like the idea of Citroen and Lancia sticking their heads together to bring us some new mad but high-class cars.
 
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