Billy Ford killed the S197 IRS

[Spectre]

Couldn't you offset that buy just charging $100 more for each car? Most consumers would not even notice.

If not that, sell it through the Ford Racing catalog or as an extra cost option. People would have bought it. It's one of the reasons I won't buy an S197.

License the no-wheel-hop-on-IRS patent from GM (they already have a patent sharing agreement on transmissions) and even the drag racers might buy one.

 

[British_Rover]

Yeah, and I'm not sure that he can get enough credit for realizing that and finding a capable successor. You know as well as I do that US business schools don't teach that.

No, they don't teach that. You have to learn your own limitations and not everyone does that.


My first big boss at UPS didn't know his own limitations. He was always trying to micromanage everything even when he didn't know what he was doing.

He had been busted down from Hub Center manager to Sort manager and after about 9 months as sort manager they gave him a lateral promotion to head of the safety committee for the area. Just something to keep him busy for a couple of years before he retired.

The second big boss I had knew when to step back and let his subordinates handle things. He also knew when he was wrong and as long as you were respectful about it and showed him where he made his mistake everything was cool.


back on topic

Didn't the mustang chassis have parts of the old S-type/LS platform in it or have they engineered all of that out already?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

If not that, sell it through the Ford Racing catalog or as an extra cost option. People would have bought it. It's one of the reasons I won't buy an S197.

License the no-wheel-hop-on-IRS patent from GM (they already have a patent sharing agreement on transmissions) and even the drag racers might buy one.

The SVT crew (I'm talking owners) have developed a way to even make the '04 Cobra's horribly compromised IRS not hop...I don't see how Ford couldn't do it with a full, well designed unit.

 

[Ezbok58a]

All this arguing and the Mustang with it's Solid axle handles better then the cars in it's class....Odd...

(The 2005 even outhandled the 2005 GTO on the skidpad, there's a good IRS vs Solid axle comparison for you)

Hey you guys want to argue a moot point go right ahead.

 

[Spectre]

No, it's not. Skidpads and most tracks are perfectly smooth.

Out in the real world, not so much - and that's where it's a problem. Axle jacking is NOT your friend mid corner.

It's hilarious to do a "Stop Light Grand Prix" against someone in a stick axle Mustang on Mockingbird Lane or some parts of Regal Row in Dallas, for example, with one of the Jags. The Jag simply accelerates, while the Mustangs bounce all over the damn place because the surface is uneven and bumpy. Locals will know exactly what I'm talking about.

I can spot a Mustang 200hp and still get to the end of the block faster. It's that bad - and because I drive in the real world, it's why I won't buy one with a stick axle.

 

[thedguy]

All this arguing and the Mustang with it's Solid axle handles better then the cars in it's class....Odd...

(The 2005 even outhandled the 2005 GTO on the skidpad, there's a good IRS vs Solid axle comparison for you)

Hey you guys want to argue a moot point go right ahead.

Then go ahead and put those same to cars out on anyone of of America's windy, and pothole ridden road and we'll see which one handles better then.

 

[Spectre]

Didn't the mustang chassis have parts of the old S-type/LS platform in it or have they engineered all of that out already?

The only parts of DEW98 that survive in the D2C/S197 platform are the floor pans, parts of the transmission tunnel, the front frame rails, and more or less the fuel tank and supports. The rest is out of, surprisingly, the C1/P1 platform - AKA the Euro Focus/Mazda 3/Volvo S40 2nd Gen/Volvo V50/Mazda 5 .

The SVT crew (I'm talking owners) have developed a way to even make the '04 Cobra's horribly compromised IRS not hop...I don't see how Ford couldn't do it with a full, well designed unit.

Erm, not entirely. The damn thing still breaks (IIRC) the spherical bearings.

 

[British_Rover]

The only parts of DEW98 that survive in the D2C/S197 platform are the floor pans, parts of the transmission tunnel, the front frame rails, and more or less the fuel tank and supports. The rest is out of, surprisingly, the C1/P1 platform - AKA the Euro Focus/Mazda 3/Volvo S40 2nd Gen/Volvo V50/Mazda 5 .

Ok that fits with what I thought that there was some DEW98 left in the mustang.

I knew about the C1/P1 bits as I think that is one of the reasons the mustang V8 swap is possible in the Focus.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Erm, not entirely. The damn thing still breaks (IIRC) the spherical bearings.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...ystery-cobra-independent-rear-suspension.html

Whatever the case, the IRS should be standard with the solid rear being a no cost, special order option for the real drag race guys. I mean, the Mustang is essentially the car that invented the 'options list' so I think we should have a multitude of different suspension, engine, transmission, wheel, interior and body configurations.

 

[InfernalVortex]

It really seems to be hurting Mustang sales!

 

[72SSAbody]

The reason why I won't trade in my Terminator for a GT500.

I love the "daily drivability" of the SN95's IRS. Makes it a much more capable GT car than most will admit or even think about.

 

[Bizness]

In North America the Mustang see's way more 1/4 mile track time then road course. The Ford IRS is a nightmare on the 1/4 mile in stock form. I've spent thousands on mine to get it to a decent launching system.

Some of you have no idea what a 500rwhp feels like when the wheel hop kicks in. It will shake you're fillings loose. Don't get me wrong, I love my IRS, but it's a love/hate relationship.

I think Ford made the right choice with a solid axel, its what the general Mustang owner wanted even though it's dated.

 

[Dr_Grip]

In North America the Mustang see's way more 1/4 mile track time then road course. The Ford IRS is a nightmare on the 1/4 mile in stock form. I've spent thousands on mine to get it to a decent launching system.

So what you are saying is that the vast majority of Mustangs in the U.S. is used as track/illegal racing cars exlusively and only a small minority daily drives them?

 

[Bizness]

So what you are saying is that the vast majority of Mustangs in the U.S. is used as track/illegal racing cars exlusively and only a small minority daily drives them?

no but the ones who know the different between an IRS and a solid axel do.

The people who buy the mustang as a daily driver don't give a rats ass if it comes with an IRS or not. Why would they?

Only the performance guys do. And the Mustang has a legacy of 1/4 mile racing.

Pick up a copy of Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords some time. Its probably 10-1 1/4 mile comparisons vs road course.

 

[Donington]

"Billy Ford here with another FANTASTIC product!"

 

[Dr_Grip]

The people who buy the mustang as a daily driver don't give a rats ass if it comes with an IRS or not. Why would they?

Because people who care enough about cars to buy a Mustang instead of some econobox would rather chop their leg off than invest ten thousands of Dollars in a car whose rear axle was designed before the wheel even was invented - even if they don't intend to race it.

 

[Dogbert]

<noob> <off topic>
So just out of curiosity, how expensive/difficult is it to change the S197 to an IRS, anyway?

 

[Ramseus]

I read somewhere years ago that ditching the IRS saved about $70 million smackers in total development costs.

$100 savings for fail axle vs good axle
$70 000 000 / 100 = 700 000 mustangs. That sounds about right. Meh, when you deal with huge business like that, $70 million isn't actually that much. Also, those 700 000 mustangs = >$14 000 000 000 (aka 14 billion)(since base is ~$20 000 USD).

In summation: the savings from using caveman technology are irrelevant.

 

[Rowdie]

its what the general Mustang owner wanted even though it's dated.

Can we make a poll? Mustang owner checking in. The car went from mostly likely to buy to off the list with that one move.

So that makes it 1 -1 for what mustang owner wanted.

 

[Rowdie]

The people who buy the mustang as a daily driver don't give a rats ass if it comes with an IRS or not. Why would they?

What? Why would they care? Because they drive the thing every day.