General Toyota lawsuit/recall/problem thread

They were on the phone for at least 5 minutes and they didn't even do sh*t about it

"Everyone" knows that putting it into Neutral will essentially stop the power going to the drive wheels and buy more time to stop the vehicle, which plainly they didn't even do that, just kept the car accelerating into their deaths.

Difference between problem and knowing what to do if you're stuck in the situation.
 
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They were on the phone for at least 5 minutes and they didn't even do sh*t about it

"Everyone" knows that putting it into Neutral will essentially stop the power going to the drive wheels and buy more time to stop the vehicle, which plainly they didn't even do that, just kept the car accelerating into their deaths.

Difference between problem and knowing what to do if you're stuck in the situation.

Can Toyota's/Lexus' be shifted in neutral at highway/freeway speeds?
I have read here there and everywhere that it isn't possible. Can someone confirm this?
 
My mom had a car that did that once, Do you know what she did? She got rid of it. You should not BE in that situation ever especially in a new car.

Can Toyota's/Lexus' be shifted in neutral at highway/freeway speeds?
I have read here there and everywhere that it isn't possible. Can someone confirm this?

I'm going to go on a limb and say no. I highly doubt that in those 5 minutes the 4 people AND the 911 operator would not think of that.
 
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Why is this only in America? And why are they just installing a fail-safe and not reprogramming drive by wire components?

Because it's a bullshit recall to keep the stupid American media at bay, and overly litigious consumers suing someone else.
 
I'm adding an item to my test-drive checklist:
"Verify that car will shift into neutral at open throttle at speed"
 
We've been over this. It could be a component that was specific to US models or a supplier's faulty component only went in US-bound cars.

I agree that there is absolutely no reason for a brand new car to have this kind of problem.

As for the electronic e-brakes, my mom's new XC70 has that. When I first saw it I got a sick feeling in my stomach as I thought of a computer, servo or electrical failure that would keep that system from working. I've always thought the e-brake should be the last-ditch mechanical fail-safe on any car. At least with a real hand brake you can modulate the braking, with a simple on/off servo system if you try to stop the car with the e-brake it will lock up the rear (or possibly fail to engage as a "safety" feature).
Argue all you want, Twerp, but there's an increasing number of documented reports of runaway Toyotas and the floormat thing just isn't adding up. Some of the runaway cars haven't had any floor mats installed.

It's easy for us, car enthusiasts, to sit back and armchair quarterback these incidents. The problem is that while we think about these scenarios because so much of our time is spent in cars and thinking about cars. To the average car Toyota owner, a car is little more than a glorified toaster. The typical Camry owner isn't someone who mentally rehearses emergency scenarios like this, in fact, you could probably tell the typical Camry or Avalon owner that the car is powered by magic, pixies, or miniature golems and they would have no clue that it's bullshit. The typical Toyota owner knows less about cars than you do about time-space relativity. When the car runs away from them they panic, freeze up, and the brain starts pumping out adrenaline which clouds logical thought and shifts processing to the primitive part of the brain. Most people just can't think clearly in such a situation, they react instinctively, not logically. You can't engineer the human out of the equation, but you can engineer the machine so that reactive responses will defuse the situation - solutions like the double-pedal fail-safe.
 
I don't know about you guys, but I'd be pleasantly surprised to find that the Toyota I was driving had the ability to accelerate suddenly... or at all, for that matter.
 
Someone on another site asked me if FJ cruisers were included in the recall, I went on the internet to look it up and I found this:
Toyota Recalls 75,000 Prius Hybrids for Engine Shutdown
Toyota has announced it is recalling 75,000 hybrid 2004 Prius and 2005 Prius models because a computer software problem that could cause the car?s warning lights to come on, the gasoline engine to shut down, and the electric motor to operate at diminished power. You?ll have enough power to get off the road, but the engine won?t run.
http://www.ohiolemonlaw.com/safety-recall-16.shtml

Toyota Prius Recall: Steering System Danger
Toyota has announced a world wide recall of the ?second generation? of its popular Prius hybrid car along with other models using the same defective steering system, including the Wish, Isis and other models.

The recall covers vehicles made between July 2003 and December 2005. Reportedly, steering parts can break or come apart and the driver can lose control ... not a good thing on the interstate highway at 65 mph.
http://www.ohiolemonlaw.com/safety-recall-51-toyota-prius-steering.htm

LOL PRIUS. So now the steering breaks apart and the motor stops randomly.

I guess it is good the motor stops randomly if the gas pedal gets stuck and the steering wheel falls off!
 
Okay now the recall's underway there's no way they're going to screw that one up. Okay, maybe not. Toyota forgot to inform their dealer body about it before going public. Ooops.

Toyota Dealers confused! recalling 3.8 million Avalon, Camry and Lexus ES 350 models


Toyota retailers are scrambling to respond to a decision to recall 3.8 million vehicles linked to incidents of sudden acceleration.
Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. told dealers of the campaign today ? after it was announced to the public. The timing has led to some confusion.
?We haven?t received any notification,? says Earl Stewart, owner of Earl Stewart Toyota of North Palm Bay, FL. ?This has been one of the most confusing situations to the dealers and customers, and a little embarrassing.?
Bob Moran, owner of Acton Toyota in Littleton, MA, says he, too, was not told of the situation until an announcement already was made.
?They notify the public and get them all stirred up, and then the phones start ringing here,? Moran tells Ward?s.
Normally, Toyota would notify its dealers first. But given the severity of the situation, there was no time to do so, a spokesman says.
?We thought this was important enough to get out early,? Bryan Lyons says, noting all dealers now should be informed about the recall.
Sudden-acceleration incidents involving Toyotas gained national prominence two months ago with the deaths of an off-duty California Highway Patrol officer and his family. Their ?09 Lexus ES 350, on loan from a local Lexus dealer, reached speeds of 120 mph (193 km/h) before soaring over an earthen roadway barrier and into the upward slope of a riverbed.
The car then burst into flames.
Under conditions of the recall, dealers will be trained and receive the necessary components to trim three-quarters of an inch off the accelerator pedals.
Additionally, dealers will receive instructions on how to reconfigure floors in the Toyota ?07-?10 Camry, ?05-?10 Avalon and ?07-?10 Lexus ES, says spokesman John Hanson, noting all models implicated in the recall eventually will be eligible for footwell modifications.
?The Camry, Avalon and ES constitute more than half of all vehicles being recalled,? he says. ?(Toyota is) concentrating on those right now. The reconfiguration of the floor sounds more complicated than it is; it just involves removal of a pad under the carpet and replacing it with a different center pad.?
After being told by Ward?s of the prescribed fixes, Moran and Stewart are left scratching their heads.
Stewart claims his dealership has been removing or replacing floor mats over the past several months without receiving compensation from Toyota.
?We didn?t get paid for any of this, and I don?t know if we will for (the recall),? he says. ?I?ve never had more calls from customers, and I?m at a loss for words.?
Says Moran: ?They?re telling people to go to your local dealer to (fix) the pedal. We don?t know how; they haven?t told us how.?
Toyota says the repairs will begin in ?early 2010,? perhaps January. Eventually the recall will encompass other Toyota vehicles, including: ?04-?09 Prius, ?05-?10 Tacoma, ?07-?10 Tundra, ?06-?10 IS 250, and ?06-?10 IS 350.
After the initial dealer fixes, Toyota will begin shipping factory-produced replacement pedals to dealers, noting customers who already have had their accelerators modified can still get the new part if they so desire.
In addition, vehicles with genuine Toyota or Lexus accessory all-weather floor mats will be provided with newly designed replacement driver- and front-passenger mats.
Meanwhile, the National Highway Traffic Safety Admin. says Toyota also intends to install a brake override system on the Camry, Avalon, ES 350, IS 350 and IS 250 models as an ?extra measure of confidence.?
The system ensures the vehicle will stop if both the brake and accelerator pedals are simultaneously applied.
 
We've been over this. It could be a component that was specific to US models or a supplier's faulty component only went in US-bound cars.

I agree that there is absolutely no reason for a brand new car to have this kind of problem.

As for the electronic e-brakes, my mom's new XC70 has that. When I first saw it I got a sick feeling in my stomach as I thought of a computer, servo or electrical failure that would keep that system from working. I've always thought the e-brake should be the last-ditch mechanical fail-safe on any car. At least with a real hand brake you can modulate the braking, with a simple on/off servo system if you try to stop the car with the e-brake it will lock up the rear (or possibly fail to engage as a "safety" feature).
Argue all you want, Twerp, but there's an increasing number of documented reports of runaway Toyotas and the floormat thing just isn't adding up. Some of the runaway cars haven't had any floor mats installed.

It's easy for us, car enthusiasts, to sit back and armchair quarterback these incidents. The problem is that while we think about these scenarios because so much of our time is spent in cars and thinking about cars. To the average car Toyota owner, a car is little more than a glorified toaster. The typical Camry owner isn't someone who mentally rehearses emergency scenarios like this, in fact, you could probably tell the typical Camry or Avalon owner that the car is powered by magic, pixies, or miniature golems and they would have no clue that it's bullshit. The typical Toyota owner knows less about cars than you do about time-space relativity. When the car runs away from them they panic, freeze up, and the brain starts pumping out adrenaline which clouds logical thought and shifts processing to the primitive part of the brain. Most people just can't think clearly in such a situation, they react instinctively, not logically. You can't engineer the human out of the equation, but you can engineer the machine so that reactive responses will defuse the situation - solutions like the double-pedal fail-safe.

The crazy part is, the man driving in the accident that sparked all of this was a police officer. He removed himself, and his family, from the world, but still, I'm left wondering how someone who panics in such a way could be a police officer. This makes me think a lot about the stroller recalls going on over here, one of which made the news on Top Gear. Although with the Maclaren stroller, I do see how the hinge could take off a childs fingers, it seems that this and the other brands of strollers involved are being recalled to protect people from making stupid mistakes.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGDjAt0yfyM[/YOUTUBE]

Safety seems to now involve protecting people from themselves. Faulty products are one thing, and the things with the Prius, the Tacoma, and Tundra are all things that responsibility should fall back on the manufacturer for. A person having an inability to properly operate their automobile should be held responsible for their own actions, as it is impossible to protect people from themselves. The double pedal fail safe is a good solution, though I do see this as a solution that may cause more problems "he was on the railroad tracks, he floored the gas but he was so panicked he depressed the brake pedal slightly as well, if only the train had 200 mattresses stuck to the front, this wouldn't have happened!".

In the US, the car must be able to be shifted to neutral, just as the cruise control must have an on/off separate from the buttons used to engage it and be able to be shut off by depressing the clutch or brake pedal.
 
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I think the fact he was a police officer with special driver training was what brought this to national attention. You can't really say "idiot driver" when it's a cop from car-chase central who know how to drive an overloaded Crown Victoria through traffic in a police chase.

The stroller recall has nothing to do with Toyota.
 
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in fact, you could probably tell the typical Camry or Avalon owner that the car is powered by magic, pixies, or miniature golems and they would have no clue that it's bullshit.

I don't know about you, but I've made it a point only to buy cars powered by miniature golems.
 
Haven't met too many cops haven you? Dead cops always get media attention, they could be the biggest, stupidest jack-off in the world, but if they're a cop they'll get attention. Not because people assume cops can drive good, I very much doubt the drive-by-wire, transmission and brakes all failed simultaneously. Especially because it was the floormat that caused the accident.

tin-foil-hat.jpg
 
I think you're asking if I have met many in the news media.

Yes, I have met plenty of cops (while handing over my license, registration and proof of insurance) - ok, and socially too. The point is that here's a guy who has much more training and real-world driving time than most the civilian population and he still crashed the car because the car didn't behave as it should have.

Go back and take a look at my explanation of brain function when flooded with adrenaline - and this guy was supposedly trained to deal with that impairment.
 
This makes me think a lot about the stroller recalls going on over here, one of which made the news on Top Gear. Although with the Maclaren stroller, I do see how the hinge could take off a childs fingers, it seems that this and the other brands of strollers involved are being recalled to protect people from making stupid mistakes.

...

Safety seems to now involve protecting people from themselves.

The stroller recall isn't protecting people from themselves. It's protecting kids from their idiot parents. Because nobody asks for idiot parents and anyone still riding in a stroller is too young to be emancipated.
 
I totally agree with that commercial. The best Toyotas were made 10 years ago.
 
I think you're asking if I have met many in the news media.

Yes, I have met plenty of cops (while handing over my license, registration and proof of insurance) - ok, and socially too. The point is that here's a guy who has much more training and real-world driving time than most the civilian population and he still crashed the car because the car didn't behave as it should have.

Go back and take a look at my explanation of brain function when flooded with adrenaline - and this guy was supposedly trained to deal with that impairment.

He didn't deal with it though. As has been well established, he could have shifted the car into neutral, fully applied the brakes when he noticed it was running away, or done a number of other things that could have resulted in a different ending.

Back when cars had carburetors, which many did in the 80's, and which I'm certain you can remember, the throttle sticking was not an unusual thing. The linkage would jam on the carburetor, or the cable would freeze, or any number of other things, which would sometimes be attributed to a resulting accident. People were able to deal with it then, just as they are now. That is why the stroller recall has everything to do with this, as people can't be protected from their own folly. I do feel sorry for the children injured by their parents inappropriately using the strollers, and for the lives lost in cars every year. As is the case with mechanical things, and the randomness of the universe, you can't prevent every bad thing from happening.

I stand by my previous statements about the Tacoma, Tundra, and Prius, all deserving their recalls as that was the fault of the manufacturer, not the operator, and those were engineering flaws that should have been noticed and could have been prevented before the cars went on sale.
 
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But this car is fuel injected, and I can tell you that they hardly discuss emergency scenarios in Driver's Ed, certainly not a sticking throttle. Hell, cars have had fuel injection since the 70s, a sticking carburetor just isn't part of the scenario for 99% of drivers. That is a fault in the car. Period. No other cars seem to be having this problem.
 
No other cars seem to be having this problem.

...except for all those Audis which ended up having nothing wrong with them. Still, the scandal nearly killed the brand in the States and it took many years for Audi to rebuild its reputation.

I'm no Toyota-lover. If anything, I'm a bit of a hater (despite the fact that my wife drives a Tacoma and loves it). But I'm still not sold that this "unintended acceleration" is Toyota's fault, not just a combination of bad floormats and snowballing hysteria.
 
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