General Toyota lawsuit/recall/problem thread

[Mr. Nice]

It's a bit tougher than that - especially when you have to do it for over 20 miles at a stretch. You have different vehicles of different widths with mirrors of different heights. When the lanes are a bit narrow you often have to weave the bike around to keep your mirrors from clipping cars.

It sounds like you're talking about lane splitting. Lane sharing is riding two abreast. I wasn't aware that lane splitting was legal in any state other than California.

 

[Blind_Io]

In California we call it "lane sharing" whenever you have more than one vehicle abreast in a lane - including cars. Riders like using this term instead of "lane splitting" for political reasons, it just sounds more collaborative and friendly. Our argument is that anytime you have that extra-wide shoulder and cars sneak past each other to make a turn or get around someone making a turn they are "lane sharing" as well. You're right, it's not legal in any other state than California.

 

[argatoga]

In Italy I believe it is called normal driving.

 

[Blind_Io]

I think that's called "suicide." Those guys will lane share into oncoming traffic. I enjoy a good lane-share as much as the next guy, but I'm firmly convinced that the Italians have no sense of self preservation.

 

[argatoga]

I think that's called "suicide." Those guys will lane share into oncoming traffic. I enjoy a good lane-share as much as the next guy, but I'm firmly convinced that the Italians have no sense of self preservation.

Yea but at least they go out looking good as they dash through traffic without protective gear.

 

[argatoga]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/24/toyota-cutting-supplier-expenses-by-30-probably-means-using-ch/

Toyota cutting supplier expenses by 30%, probably means using cheaper partsAs with every other automaker ? heck, almost every other company ? Toyota wants to save more money. Japan's Asahi business daily revealed a Toyota initiative to lower its parts expenses by 30% over the next three years, and it is one that we're all too familiar with: Toyota told its suppliers to cut their prices by 30-40%. Can anyone guess how suppliers will most likely remove one-third the cost of their parts? If you said "use cheaper materials," we have your prize backstage...

A Toyota spokesman said the company had given "various suggestions including cost reductions" to the affected portion of its supplier base, which makes it sound like at the very least the company didn't just say "Here's less money, make it work." There are more than 200 vehicle components involved the move ? that might sound sizable on its own but it's a tiny fraction of all the parts in a car.

Ultimately, Toyota wants to ensure its competitiveness in emerging markets and guard against a strengthening yen. Assuming the initiative is carried out, the parts in question will be used for cars arriving for the 2013 model year. We hope that by 2014 it is clear that Toyota chose the right bets for this game of parts roulette.

[Source: Reuters via TTAC | Image: TOSHIFUMI KITAMURA/AFP/Getty Images]

 

[Mitlov]

Hey, cutting quality out of parts to increase short-term profitability worked great for the Detroit Three a couple decades ago, right? *facepalm*

 

[Hatmouse]

Ha, watch all the plastic bits supporting a Toyota need replacement at 100k miles for cars 2012 onwards.

 

[TobiasG]

I remember getting the throttle stuck in an 87 mazda 626. Was accelerating after i paid at the toll booth on the highway when it got stuck. I ballanced between the brakes and clutch to keep the engine from blowing and also to keep the brakes from heating up. The whole event took just 15-20 seconds or so. Was not in any risk of crashing into anything or anyone..my biggest concern was not to blow up the engine and to get the freaking throttle back. I found out i could just flip the throttle back into its idle position and everything was fine again. But it was a nice feature i discovered...on uphills i had cruise control

 

[2Billion]

Dammit Toyota, you figured out decades ago how to make a profit out of a car with components that don't break. This is why people buy your cars. Why can't you figure that out now?

 

[Phila]

LA Times details Toyota history of concealing safety issues

Autoblog

The unintended acceleration issue has reached critical mass for Toyota, but is it an isolated incident for an automaker with an otherwise stellar record for being frank with its customers? A recent investigation by the Los Angeles Times shows that Toyota may have concealed safety issues on several occasions in an effort to keep its name clean. The newspaper is reporting that it uncovered several incidents in which Toyota concealed defects or delayed recalls even after several complaints were made.

For instance, there was an issue with a plastic panel that could be dislodged, potentially leading to unintended acceleration issues in some 2003 model Toyota Sienna minivans. Engineers reportedly discovered the problem and fixed the issue after 26,000 units were made. Toyota didn't announce a recall until six years later. Then there was a steering issue with 2004 Toyota 4Runner models. Toyota recalled the vehicles in Japan but insisted that no recall was necessary in the U.S. even after there were dozens of complaints that showed the problem was real. The Japanese automaker finally recalled the SUVs in 2005. More recent was a suit filed by Dimitrios Biller; the ex-Toyota lawyer who alleges that his former employer hid safety data and evidence in rollover cases.

And that's not nearly all. Click past the break to keep reading about more possible safety defects the LA Times suggests may have been concealed by Toyota.


Of all Toyota's recent problems, the unintended acceleration issue looms largest of all. There have been as many as 19 deaths that have been attributed to the issue, more than all other automakers combined. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration told the Times that there have been eight previous Toyota acceleration-related recalls; more than any other automaker.

The newspaper points out several incidences where owners went to court over unintended acceleration issues only to settle the issue out of court after the plaintiff signs a non-disclosure agreement. Others claim that Toyota sent out a representative to run diagnostics on their vehicle. When the customers asked for a copy of the diagnostic test results Toyota denied the request. In fact, Toyota told the Times that it only has one black box reader in the U.S. and that the device was a prototype. And since the device, which requires two passwords to operate, is a prototype, private citizens and their attorneys have been denied requests to see the data. Dealers have bought back vehicles of customers who complained of unintended acceleration issues and the LA Times says some of those vehicles were then sold to other customers.

The recall of 4.25 million vehicles finally came after a family of four, with an off-duty police officer behind the wheel, was killed in California because the Lexus in question reportedly accelerated on its own. When Toyota announced the recall, it blamed the problem on floor mats and intimated that there was no defect. That led to a rebuke by the NHTSA. The government safety organization called the statements "inaccurate and misleading."

Has Toyota been concealing safety issues? The LA Times makes a pretty compelling argument. Head over to the investigative article by clicking on the read link below and tell us what you think in the comments section after the jump.

I can't get enough of this.

 

[Wizegui]

There is some evidence to suggest that the 30% cost cutting had started at around 2005 in order to reduce overall cost and to maintain profitability. Basically what they are doing is that they're telling their suppliers to match the prices of the Chinese manufacturers or gtfo. Evidence of this is when you compare the interior of a 04 Camry with an 06 Camry. Having that said, what they're doesn't necessary have to be a bad thing, but unfortunately it appears as though they have chosen to save money in areas where money is needed to be spent.

 

[argatoga]

There is some evidence to suggest that the 30% cost cutting had started at around 2005 in order to reduce overall cost and to maintain profitability. Basically what they are doing is that they're telling their suppliers to match the prices of the Chinese manufacturers or gtfo. Evidence of this is when you compare the interior of a 04 Camry with an 06 Camry. Having that said, what they're doesn't necessary have to be a bad thing, but unfortunately it appears as though they have chosen to save money in areas where money is needed to be spent.

Yea because that worked so well for Mercedes.

Anyhow more news on this front.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/26/nhtsa-reportedly-eyes-loss-of-braking-power-in-2010-toyota-prius/

2009 has not been a good year for Toyota. After getting its first full-year loss in seven decades, it faced its biggest-ever safety recall over unintended acceleration caused by floor mats and/or throttle control software. Now, as the year draws to a close, a new potential problem has sprung up. This time around, the issue is related to the braking system on the latest Prius, which debuted early this year.

The problem, which has been reported to National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) by several dozen drivers, relates to a loss of deceleration when transitioning from regenerative braking to friction braking. At this time, NHTSA has not opened a full investigation but it is monitoring the situation.

This is actually quite a complicated issue, and it highlights one of the reasons why it takes automakers so long to bring cars to market. Read on after the jump for some discussion on what might be happening.

 

[Spectre]

Hm... wonder if their friction brakes were cold at the time. Doesn't the Prius resort to regen braking for most light braking tasks and only engage the friction binders at the end if you're not braking moderate-to-hard?

 

[argatoga]

If that's the case they could probably fix it with a software update. A lot cheaper than a recall.

 

[Spectre]

If that's the case they could probably fix it with a software update. A lot cheaper than a recall.

Possibly, but their range to empty/mpg will go down, potentially causing more lawsuits. Can't win for losing if that's the case.

My Pathfinder doesn't want to stop for the first or second stop of the day, but that's because I put pads on it that want a little heat in the rotors to begin working. Fortunately, I can usually get the first couple of stops done quickly and get some heat into the rotors because of the stoplights and such near my house. There's nothing wrong with the vehicle, really, but someone who doesn't know what's going on and why could potentially be surprised. More manufacturers are going to the carbon-metallic and ceramic pads which don't stop for crap when dead cold, so expect this to be more common as hybrids start wandering around in larger numbers.

Edit: According to PriusChat, that's exactly what the car's doing. Seems to happen more on cold/wet days, too, which leads me to think that yeah, it's cold pads that's doing it.

 

[argatoga]

Pad heaters? Or how about having the car start out with the brakes on a bit when it's cold. Would increase wear, but it would fix it.

 

[Spectre]

Pad heaters? Or how about having the car start out with the brakes on a bit when it's cold. Would increase wear, but it would fix it.

The way I'd do it would be to apply the friction brakes very lightly (such as how Mercedes does the 'rain removal' on their rotors in their cars) while the regenerative braking is going. This would preheat the rotors and pads and cut down on (what is apparently) lag time between the regens switching off and the friction brakes coming up.

 

[rickhamilton620]

There is some evidence to suggest that the 30% cost cutting had started at around 2005 in order to reduce overall cost and to maintain profitability. Basically what they are doing is that they're telling their suppliers to match the prices of the Chinese manufacturers or gtfo. Evidence of this is when you compare the interior of a 04 Camry with an 06 Camry. Having that said, what they're doesn't necessary have to be a bad thing, but unfortunately it appears as though they have chosen to save money in areas where money is needed to be spent.

Indeed, the new for 07 model's interior was a step back IMO from the previous gen models. Same's the case with the current gen Corolla.

 

[Blind_Io]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-avalon-displays-unintended-acceleration-without-floor-mat.html

In a rather bizarre instance, a driver reportedly began to experience unintended acceleration from his Toyota Avalon and was able to drive the car to a nearby dealer with the vehicle still displaying wide open throttle, despite having the floormat removed. Dealer techs witnessed the problem and have reportedly offered to repair the vehicle free of charge.

According to a report from The Safety Record, on December 29, 2009, the driver of a 2007 Toyota Avalon experienced a bizarre case of sudden and unintended acceleration while driving on the highway, just miles from a local Toyota dealer. The driver managed to switch the vehicle between Neutral and Drive multiple times, while en route to the dealer in order to show the dealer the problem as it was still occurring.

The driver was able to reach the dealer, place the vehicle into neutral, and allow it to continue operating at wide open throttle. The dealer sent out a tech who verified that the floor mat was removed, and pushing the gas pedal had no effect on the acceleration. The dealer was unable to stop the wide open throttle and was forced to shut the vehicle off.

This incident was apparently not the first for the driver, either, who had been to the dealer before about the problem. The first time the unintended acceleration occurred, the driver was able to slow the vehicle with the brakes and switch the vehicle into neutral ? where the engine continued to hit maximum rpms. At the time of the first incident, dealer diagnostics revealed no problems in the computer.

The dealer eventually offered to replace the throttle body, accelerator pedal and associated sensors free of charge for the driver after the second incident.

This incident may prove to be a crucial step in finding the true cause of the many reported cases of unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles. Toyota began its largest-ever recall in 2009 to replace the floor mats and accelerator pedals in over 3.8 million vehicles that could experience unintended acceleration. Critics and survivors of unintended acceleration cases argued that the problem was not a result of the floor mats or accelerator pedals, but instead insist that the computer controlling the acceleration of the vehicle is at fault.

The Safety Record also reported on a one-car crash that occurred in Dallas, Texas the day after Christmas involving a Toyota Avalon. According to the accident report, the vehicle inexplicably left the road and ended up crashing through a fence, and landing upside down in a pond ? killing all four occupants. The floor mats were found in the trunk of the car ? ruling out the possibility of the floor mat causing the accident.

The official cause of the Dallas crash has not yet been determined.