Random Thoughts... [Photographic Edition]

True, but if that UV filter breaks, you'll get a gazillion small glass pieces on the front element, and that will scratch it up massively. And on a modern lens that doesn't use lead glass, you're more likely to get a scratch on the front element if your filter breaks than by actively scratching the front element with a nail.

UV filters are useless, absolutely uuuuseless.
 
In case anyone is wondering, if you want to hack together a remote shutter release for a Canon, it's quite simple. In preparations for fireworks tomorrow night I prepared just such a thing. A TI Calculator communications cable just happens to be the same size as the remote port, a couple alligator clip leads and a momentary switch clipped to it works just perfectly for a remote shutter release. Works in every mode I've tested so far, manual or auto focus as well. Not really pretty, but it was free.

:lol:

https://pic.armedcats.net/n/na/nabster/2010/07/03/DSC03770.JPG
 
^That's brilliant!


It might be useful for keeping dust off of your front element.

True, but if that UV filter breaks, you'll get a gazillion small glass pieces on the front element, and that will scratch it up massively. And on a modern lens that doesn't use lead glass, you're more likely to get a scratch on the front element if your filter breaks than by actively scratching the front element with a nail.

UV filters are useless, absolutely uuuuseless.


Somewhat contrasting statements there lol. I ended up not getting one, partly because of budget.



After playing with all the lenses there in the camera shop, including the recommended 70-300mm, I ended up choosing and purchasing the Tamron 18-270mm. It's major problem is lens creep, but the selling point is the optical range:


https://pic.armedcats.net/l/lu/lurkerpatrol/2010/07/04/Untitled-2.png
 
Last edited:
Somewhat contrasting statements there lol. I ended up not getting one, partly because of budget.

I've never heard of filters breaking and scratching the front element. It's pretty common practice to use a filter to protect the front element from grease, water, dust etc. If you buy a new lens you should ask the shop to throw one in, they will probably oblige.
 
*ghetto remote shutter cable*

Bah! I just use a $3 (terrible at its intended purpose) cell phone headset with a mute button. Works like a charm, just as functional as the $40 Canon remote for less than a tenth of the price so, what the hell, eh?
 
  • Like
Reactions: LP
Bah! I just use a $3 (terrible at its intended purpose) cell phone headset with a mute button. Works like a charm, just as functional as the $40 Canon remote for less than a tenth of the price so, what the hell, eh?

I don't use nor have a cellphone headset, so I just rigged up something with what I had. Although I'll probably end up going to the dollar store to look for something with the right connection cord and just cut it off and wire a momentary switch to the end and heatstrink it on for a remote for future use.
 
In case anyone is wondering, if you want to hack together a remote shutter release for a Canon, it's quite simple. In preparations for fireworks tomorrow night I prepared just such a thing. A TI Calculator communications cable just happens to be the same size as the remote port, a couple alligator clip leads and a momentary switch clipped to it works just perfectly for a remote shutter release. Works in every mode I've tested so far, manual or auto focus as well. Not really pretty, but it was free.

:lol:

Nice hack. And the (Radio) Shack is a Friend to electronic hackers.
 
I've never heard of filters breaking and scratching the front element. It's pretty common practice to use a filter to protect the front element from grease, water, dust etc. If you buy a new lens you should ask the shop to throw one in, they will probably oblige.
Neither have I. But for the last six months, a couple of mates of mine have carried out testing on old, crappy lenses like EF-S 18-55s, old Sigma telezooms and so on. With and without UV filters, with or without a lens hood.

Their conclution was:

i. In a head to head comparison, the lens hood provides more protection to the lens when the lens ie. falls to the ground. It works like a crumple zone. The UV filter breaks, and gets stuck in the thread.
ii. It is possible to scratch the front element of ie. a 18-55 with a nail. But when the UV filter breaks from outside force, like hitting a hard surface, the shattered glass will do untold damage to the front element.
iii. The front elements of lenses are very strong. Modern lenses use a hard type of glass, that differ slighty from the softer, lead based glass in many legacy lenses. This means it's actually quite hard to scratch modern lenses' front elements.
iv. If the force striking the lens is strong enough to scratch the front element, the UV filter will break, and the shattered glass will, again, do untold damage.
v. The best bet for protecting your lens is a lens hood. It works like a crumple zone, it keeps most edges away from the front element, and if it breaks, it won't lead to more damage.

:)
 
And if I drop my camera into a bucket of diamonds?
;)

iv. If the force striking the lens is strong enough to scratch the front element, the UV filter will break, and the shattered glass will, again, do untold damage.

So you're basically saying that the filter provides no protection against scratches. You didn't say that they proved an impact that wouldn't scratch the front element would break the filter and cause damage. Point being that a filter would provide protection against everything other than severe impact so there's no reason to explicitly not have a filter.

Then again it may degrade IQ more than dust or a smudge.

I don't use filters for protection myself, but I can see where it might be advantageous. Shooting in conditions that might see your lens get sprayed with water or oil or blood or whatever, it would e easier to swap or remove the filter and keep shooting than try to clean the lens.
 
What I'm saying is that it will keep dust of the front element, but if your lens is knocked, the chance that your front element will see damage is greated if you're using a UV filter. The filter is a flat pain of glass, it doesn't take too much to break it, while it would take pretty extraordinary circumstances to break a front element. Even scratching it would take extraordinary force.
 
Yeah I get that - it would take more force to break your front element than a filter, but would it take more force to scratch your front element than it would take to break your filter? You would need to prove that to prove a filter provides no protection against scratches. If the force required to break the filter or scratch the front element is equal then you would have to consider whether the protection against dust, liquids and fingerprints is worth the trade-off of IQ and cost (i never recommended buying one, just asking for a freebie).
 
I would absolutely think so. Breaking a filter is easy, scratching a modern front element is very hard. But the tests they carried out seemed to indicate that the filter would break easier than it would be scratching the front element.

I'm requesting permission to borrow some of the photos from the test.

:)
 
But the tests they carried out seemed to indicate that the filter would break easier than it would be scratching the front element.

If that's true and can be proven then it would seem no filter would be the best bet.

...unless perhaps you are in a situation where dust and liquid are more of a threat than impact. I've never had the front element hit by anything except water, dirt, fingers...
 
Yes. If you're in that kind of situation, a filter is a good idea in my opinion. :)
 
But then you're just wiping off a dirty filter instead of a dirty front element. Might be an advantage if you decide to sell the lens later on, though.
 
Seems I was a bit inaccurate. I'll translate vital parts of their tests, link to some video content (in Norwegian) and hotlink some images with their permission. :)

First of all, mostly for fun, the Paparazzi deathmatch. Let me say that I think this is inaccurate, we PJ's usually go for the head, not the lens. But anyway.


The question now is wether or not a paparazzi needs a UV filter to protect his lens from other paraparzzis, or would a lens hood work better? Equipment in use: Nikon F50 w/ Tamron 28-300 vs. D700 w/MB-D10 and Tokina 100/2.8 (total weight 2145 grams). This is a test of the lens hood. Roll film!


Doesn't look nice, but the lens was not harmed.

Now, let's see how the camera shops proposed protection, the UV filter, works.


[video=youtube;6PG96gpgC-c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PG96gpgC-c[/video]

(For those who don't speak Norwegian, even if you don't, you'll see the result, and what they're saying is that the UV filter breaks into small glass pieces that will ruin the front element.)

They seem to think that the UV filter makes things worse. When the D300 hits, it's crushed, and broken glass hits the front element at high velosity, making nasty scratches that wouldn't have been there if the lens didn't have a filter.

874480884_KqTxN-X3.jpg

The tiny scratch is in the left side of the image. Notice the not inconsiderable amount of glass dust on the front element. It's worth noting that these damages were impossible to spot on images from practical use.

Nest test is the

Sandbox Faceplant

This test is to establish what damage the front element of a camera will obtain if it falls into sand. Test without UV filter.


No noticable damage. According to this test, it's better to get large amounts of sand onto the front element than the crushed remains of an UV filter.

Right, now it's time for the big test, the so called

Excalibur test.

In the red corner, with a weight of 200 grams, we find the undefeated "World Crap lens Champion", the Canon 18-55/3.5-5.6:

876363249_j3Pbd-M.jpg

(Disclaimer: This photo is in fact from the post mortem of the lens, we are very sorry for the inconveniance this might provide.)

In the blue corner, the newcommer Excalibur!

887734222_6P6oM-M.jpg


Excalibur has a swing arm of aprox. 90cm and a weight of over 3 kgs. The forces from this weight is lead to the glass through this nail with it's head cut off:

887708284_4dtUM-M.jpg
'

We'll be running two rounds of tests, fist with the swingarm at 45 degrees, then at 90 degrees.

First with lens hood at 45 degrees:


Then with the UV filter at 45 degrees:


The UV filter dies with a nasty scratch, but it has actually done its job.

Then without any protection at 45 degrees (don't try this at home):


(At this point, I'll point out that I was mistaken, the lens gets damaged without the filter)

This provided enough force to bend the nail and make a scratch on the glass:

874483804_cjQWe-M.jpg


At moderate force, it is possible that a UV filter can do some sort of good.

The scratch does not seem to have any visual impact on the final photos:

887763632_9LdYg-M.jpg

("Foto": Tom)

Time to up the stakes, 90 degrees:

First with lens hood:

SNAP! Excalibur has defeated the indefeatable lens hood! You will respect it's authoritah!

So, let's see, will the UV filter safe the front element when things go PROPERLY pear shaped?


..err.. no.

Ugly:
874487612_MsChW-M.jpg


We're getting small bits of glass sliding around behind the front element. We have enormous scratches.. this MUST do something drastic to the image quality of the lens?

887766365_wWj37-X2.jpg


...perhaps, but I can't see it. Some testing in difficult conditions might be warranted, but it does look okay.

Conclution: A UV filter might be better than nothing in very specific circumstances. But in other circumstanes, it will make matters worse. The lens hood is still what we'd advice for protection.

Original thread: http://www.diskusjon.no/index.php?showtopic=1231256
Posted with the explicit permission of the original writers and testers, please don't hotlink these images without their (through mine) permission.
 
Top