Jaguar X-Type: why all the hate?

adaptech said:
The X-Type isn't RWD. It's either 4WD or FWD.
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4WD it is then, it's still a drive the chassis wasn't designed for... Of course you can modify it and patch it to become one, but it's never as good as something that was thought out to be 4WD from the beginning
 
mpicco said:
4WD it is then, it's still a drive the chassis wasn't designed for... Of course you can modify it and patch it to become one, but it's never as good as something that was thought out to be 4WD from the beginning
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Actually the mk1 Mondeo was available with 4wd. So it was initially designed to be used with 4wd.
 
Apparently the X-Type was actually intended to be FWD to start with, but dealer and potential customer outrage made Ford reconsider and offer it as a 40/60 split AWD.

It didn't help.

It should also be mentioned that at the time, Jaguar claimed that it was all their idea and they had done all the engineering on it to make it very different than the parent platform. Now that Jaguar isn't part of the Ford universe any more, the story now goes that they were handed an 80% complete platform by Ford and ordered to make a Jag out of it.

I tend to believe the latter story more, but we won't know for sure until more people hit retirement age (and thus don't have to worry about getting hired on elsewhere).
 
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what i dont get is they tried to target younger, hipper people (old men buy jags here in the UK usually... the XJ) and rather than make something a young 20-30 something business pro might want, they put the XJ blue prints on a copier and went 0.75 x copy.

they made an old mans car smaller and tried to sell it to a young man. and to add further insult, simply plonked its squished XJ body and fake plastic wood interior onto a Mondeo platform and kicked it out the door. i would of rather bought the mondeo and got the ST spec or something for the price of paying for a fake jag.
 
Am I right in thinking that the X Type did save Jaguar from financial ruin? I'm sure I read that somewere.

That has to be a positive.
 
Gibby said:
Am I right in thinking that the X Type did save Jaguar from financial ruin? I'm sure I read that somewere.

That has to be a positive.
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No, it didn't. In fact, the X-Type was a major loss maker for Jaguar as after the first 18-24 months sales were almost non-existent in the US and Euro sales were not good enough to compensate.
 
Momentum57 said:
When GM saw that Cadillac needed to find a younger generation of fans or die they gave us the Catera, it was a good car but was not accepted as a Cadillac.
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Two reasons why it failed in the U.S.:

1. It came too late, the Catera was released in the US in 1997, while the Omega was released in late 1993, which made it a bit "old".

2. It had no V8. The American's are V8 freaks, and as long as a Car is RWD, they obviously wan't an V8 Version, which nearly happened in 2001, but then they realized, that the European's don't wan't an V8, and only weeks before it was about to launch, they killed it off, and with it, the Catera. The Omega then, was finally killed off in 2003, for reasons I quite not understand.

But if we look at it now, then the simple answer to it would have been, if Cadillac rebadged from the begin on the Hold Commodore VT as Catera. It has a remomodded Omega GM Y platform, was released in 1997 and had acces to an Corvette V8.
 
Gibby said:
Am I right in thinking that the X Type did save Jaguar from financial ruin? I'm sure I read that somewere.

That has to be a positive.
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Land Rover is what saved Jaguar from financial ruin. Ford combined the two into one operational unit.
 
AudiV6 said:
Two reasons why it failed in the U.S.:

1. It came too late, the Catera was released in the US in 1997, while the Omega was released in late 1993, which made it a bit "old".

2. It had no V8. The American's are V8 freaks, and as long as a Car is RWD, they obviously wan't an V8 Version, which nearly happened in 2001, but then they realized, that the European's don't wan't an V8, and only weeks before it was about to launch, they killed it off, and with it, the Catera. The Omega then, was finally killed off in 2003, for reasons I quite not understand.

But if we look at it now, then the simple answer to it would have been, if Cadillac rebadged from the begin on the Hold Commodore VT as Catera. It has a remomodded Omega GM Y platform, was released in 1997 and had acces to an Corvette V8.
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X-Type was an AWD not RWD. And if I'm getting a Jag it better be a V12!
 
I liked the X-Type. Granted, I have never driven or been inside of one, but I like it. The styling reminds me of the old XJs, and to me, those are proper Jags. So its not an XJ12.. the XJ6 was still jaaagg. The Jags were far from perfect cars anyway, so I think the X-Type fits the bill. It has flaws, an old chassis, and is cheaper than other Jags, but I think that gives it character. Plus it has more presence than a BMW.
 
Shentar said:
Plus it has more presence than a BMW.
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Presence? I'll get back to you on that one... That's like saying my wrinkly, senile old grandfather has more presence than a bodybuilder.

I remember when the X-Type came out, my dad was driving his XJ6 Sports at the time. He thought it was some sort of new XJ, but was really cheap compared to the rest of the Jag range. He liked the looks of on paper, but got a rude shock when we saw it at the motor show. It's tiny and hopeless, and the whole appeal of a Jaguar back then was a (fairly decent sized at least) gentlemen's club on wheels. It was a cramped, overpriced Mondeo, which pretty much sums up all the problems with it...
 
I can see his point. BMWs and Mercedes are as common as dirt, everyone with a few bucks in their pocket buys one to tell the world "I Have Arrived. I Am Better Than You."

Jags do have more presence than a BMW, but it's a quieter, more sophisticated presence that is none the less felt by anyone in the vicinity. It's the type of car that is driven by a man who doesn't have to shout that he has arrived, and if he did feel the need to shout it he would hire a man to do it for him. This is especially true of the XJ.
 
Shentar said:
So its not an XJ12.. the XJ6 was still jaaagg.
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Wait are you saying the XJ6 was not considered a Jag? Jag was known most for their L6 engines on and off the track. The V12 was only raced from '88 until Bernie Ecclestone almost killed Le Mans.
 
Blind_Io said:
Jags do have more presence than a BMW, but it's a quieter, more sophisticated presence that is none the less felt by anyone in the vicinity. It's the type of car that is driven by a man who doesn't have to shout that he has arrived, and if he did feel the need to shout it he would hire a man to do it for him. This is especially true of the XJ.
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At least until the new XJ. It is now quite clearly styled into the vulgar footballer category, which not only shouts "HEY GUYS I'VE ARRIVED" it also pays a chorus to follow him around everywhere singing "AND HE'S BETTER THAN YOU"
 
Blind_Io said:
I can see his point. BMWs and Mercedes are as common as dirt, everyone with a few bucks in their pocket buys one to tell the world "I Have Arrived. I Am Better Than You."

Jags do have more presence than a BMW, but it's a quieter, more sophisticated presence that is none the less felt by anyone in the vicinity. It's the type of car that is driven by a man who doesn't have to shout that he has arrived, and if he did feel the need to shout it he would hire a man to do it for him. This is especially true of the XJ.
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In the 60s this would have not matched that description.

1963_Jaguar_XK-E_Roadster.jpg
 
EyeMWing said:
At least until the new XJ. It is now quite clearly styled into the vulgar footballer category, which not only shouts "HEY GUYS I'VE ARRIVED" it also pays a chorus to follow him around everywhere singing "AND HE'S BETTER THAN YOU"
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It worked for Land Rover with the Range Rover...and that's a pretty strong argument from a financial perspective.
 
Blind_Io said:
I can see his point. BMWs and Mercedes are as common as dirt, everyone with a few bucks in their pocket buys one to tell the world "I Have Arrived. I Am Better Than You."

Jags do have more presence than a BMW, but it's a quieter, more sophisticated presence that is none the less felt by anyone in the vicinity. It's the type of car that is driven by a man who doesn't have to shout that he has arrived, and if he did feel the need to shout it he would hire a man to do it for him. This is especially true of the XJ.
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I'll agree with any Jag apart from an X-Type. I've seen cool businessmen driving XJ Jags, XKs, XFs, but only old boring retired men drive X-Types. There's no presence with a X-Type.
 
^ I disagree

One: There are no "cool" businessmen

Two: Only car enthusiast have a prejudice against this car. To everyone else its a Jag full stop. This can be a bit of pain when your trying to weasel out of being the one to pick up the check.

Three: Your definition of presence is effected by your prejudice. "Just because you are a character does not mean you have character" Lets take your example of an old man having more presence than a bodybuilder: The jersey shore's "THE SITUATION" is a character and I am sure can get a room too look at him, HOWEVER, Sir Ranulph Fiennes is an old man and the guy at the party you want to sit with.

http://img188.imageshack.**/img188/7250/90008881.jpg >

http://img808.imageshack.**/img808/3662/thesituation.jpg

It may not be as fast or have all the bells and whistles BUT it's otherness makes up for that in spades
 
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If we're bringing in "everyone else" into this argument, then to "everyone else" Jags are unreliable old-people's cars for retirees in Florida, the way Cadillacs used to be. Even my non-car friends who thought that way said that they preferred my old XJ, for example, to what they called the "small Jags", because it looked like what a Jag is supposed to be, namely big and imposing. The X-Type on the other hand is and looks like a case of bad taxidermy. Compare on the other hand the Merc 190E, which still retains the bank-vault looks and proportions of its contemporary E-class and only when you get close to it do you realize it's actually pretty small; that's how you're supposed to go downmarket. The free-falling sales numbers that led to its eventual discontinuation tell what "everyone else" really thought of the X-Type.

Momentum57 said:
^ I disagree

One: There are no "cool" businessmen

Two: Only car enthusiast have a prejudice against this car. To everyone else its a Jag full stop. This can be a bit of pain when your trying to weasel out of being the one to pick up the check.

Three: Your definition of presence is effected by your prejudice. "Just because you are a character does not mean you have character" Lets take your example of an old man having more presence than a bodybuilder: The jersey shore's "THE SITUATION" is a character and I am sure can get a room too look at him, HOWEVER, Sir Ranulph Fiennes is an old man and the guy at the party you want to sit with.

It may not be as fast or have all the bells and whistles BUT it's otherness makes up for that in spades
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