Idiots + Winter - The FAIL Collection Thread

Accelerometers most likely

Would certainly be the best way around it. I'll have to probe for more information next time I'm visiting the specialists I buy parts from.
 
In the video snow is not the problem, it's ice under a thin layer of snow.

Yes, I noticed that. Still I have seen worse. The layer of snow should still be thick enough to offer enough grip, when using winter tires in teamwork with the momentum of the car, once it is moving at a certain speed -- which of course has to be maintained. The Jeep at 1:20 proves, that with a 4x4 you can even come to a standstill and accelerate again. I assume he has snow tires or offroad tires on. With the right tires and a 4x4 you can even climb a slope covered completely in ice to some degree.

I don't buy the minimum speed theory of the ABS, though. My Golf's ABS gets active, when I make a turn in my narrow street and there is some autumn leaves in the gutter...

No, what I think is that the cars in question had come to a standstill and then are sliding down the hill, with the drivers still having their feet slammed on the brake pedal. And voil?: No wheel movement for the ABS sensors to detect and to compute, hence no ABS in action.

Computers are stupid but the crucial errors are always made by humans
 
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I'm confident in my driving ability and my vehicle, but if I come to a hill with that many slide-offs I'm going another way.

God bless you! I mean, that's kinda the point.

If you see a ton of cars sliding, slipping and just playing ice-bumper-cars on a certain hill or street...

Why on Earth would anyone even attempt to make just one more go at it?

"Gee, I just saw 100 cars slide down that ice covered hill to a chasm of crashy hell, but yunno..I bet I can make it! Hey Bob, watch this!"
 
You know, something doesn't add up in my brain here.

I think of the USA, particularly the mountainous regions, being familiar with snow, ice and harsh winters. Yet they always seem to be completely surprised by winter weather, which isn't particularly bad (I've seen much worse here, than in that YouTube clip), and completely unable to handle it. In addition there seem to be lots of cars and trucks without the most basic safety equipment (like ABS for instance), a lack of snow tires and a total inability to drive on loose surfaces like snow.


Welcome to my world. I'm fairly sure about half of my posts here are just me bitching about drivers who can't drive in the snow. In Ohio!
 
God bless you! I mean, that's kinda the point.

If you see a ton of cars sliding, slipping and just playing ice-bumper-cars on a certain hill or street...

Why on Earth would anyone even attempt to make just one more go at it?

"Gee, I just saw 100 cars slide down that ice covered hill to a chasm of crashy hell, but yunno..I bet I can make it! Hey Bob, watch this!"

I wonder if for some those there in big trucks it was something like "My truck can go anywhere!!!!111one".
 
I don't buy the minimum speed theory of the ABS, though. My Golf's ABS gets active, when I make a turn in my narrow street and there is some autumn leaves in the gutter...

No, what I think is that the cars in question had come to a standstill and then are sliding down the hill, with the drivers still having their feet slammed on the brake pedal. And voil?: No wheel movement for the ABS sensors to detect and to compute, hence no ABS in action.

Computers are stupid but the crucial errors are always made by humans

:nod: at the speed. When idling in first gear, depressing the clutch, slamming on the brakes on ice my ABS will kick in as well.
Without additional sensory input the car has no way of knowing it is moving relative to the road surface.
 
Hmm, I think I remembered how ABS works incorrectly. At least the Bosch system on my Pug the ABS keeps working until the car is completely stopped. But, if I lift my foot on the pedal just a little when the car is almost stopped (so around 5km/h) and let the wheels turn without using ABS and then hit the pedal again it will lock all wheels. So if the car is sliding down slowly enough, the ABS might think it's not needed and allow the wheels to lock, thus turning the vechile to a sled. Well, the vechile with incompetent driver anyway.

I've never done a proper test, but it feels like the car stops much faster when the last couple of km/hs are done with blocked wheels (atleast with studded tires) instead of letting the ABS do it's job until the very end, so normally when coming to stop I lift of the pedal just a little when speed is low enough and then press it fully. When the road is totally covered in ice it's just so much more easier to use the ABS than modulate the brakes manually (the quickest way to stop on ice with studded tires would be to fully block all the wheels actually), or maybe I'm just lazy. On the other hand it must be good to actually use the system, so all valves etc in the ABS box don't just get jammed because they're not used.

And a bit on topic also:

Sadly I didn't have a camera with me, but last year I saw a Nissan Cashcow lying on armco in the middle of two streets on a 1,5m high pile of snow. There was a T-junction and it had failed to stop. I think any proper AWD car would have been able to drive back to the street, so it wasn't a serious crash, but the combination of snow, urban area and car like that just hanging hopelessly one wheel on the air on 45? angle on the snowbank. It looked just so right :D
 
On a loose surface such as snow locking the wheels does increase stopping power. You're piling up a small hill in front of each tyre, that helps you stop. That's why VW's ABS allows me to have some locking when the computer detects a loose surface, giving me both the added stopping power from the hills and control of the vehicle's direction.

On ice that's not the case obviously.
 
From howstuffworks:
The controller monitors the speed sensors at all times. It is looking for decelerations in the wheel that are out of the ordinary. Right before a wheel locks up, it will experience a rapid deceleration. If left unchecked, the wheel would stop much more quickly than any car could. It might take a car five seconds to stop from 60 mph (96.6 kph) under ideal conditions, but a wheel that locks up could stop spinning in less than a second.

The ABS controller knows that such a rapid deceleration is impossible, so it reduces the pressure to that brake until it sees an acceleration, then it increases the pressure until it sees the deceleration again.
According to that on slow speeds the ABS controller might think the car could actually decelerate as fast as the wheel locks up and so the ABS wouldn't be activated.

I don't remember if there has been any time when the ABS hasn't worked for me on slow speeds though.
 
What about Japan?
2260.jpg

Oops, I'll add that to the list. I forgot about the tiny island nation of India as well :D
In my defence my world view sort of looks like this

https://pic.armedcats.net/k/kn/knarkas/2011/01/02/oa1amx.jpg
 
"Gee, I just saw 100 cars slide down that ice covered hill to a chasm of crashy hell, but yunno..I bet I can make it! Hey Bob, watch this!"



You know there is a joke about black boxes in pick-up trucks in there :razz:

Related....we now have one less Srt 10 in Belgium, because there was some Ice apparantly :razz:

Yesterday this guy managed to jump the guardrail, flew (yes flew) about 20 meter through the air and landed in the trees down by the canal, I know that spot very wel and thats a LONG jump and a deep drop.

Both occupants sustained minor injuries (Detroit iron FTW!)

http://www.hbvl.be/limburg/heusden-zolder/jeep-vliegt-van-brug-e314-in-heusden-zolder.aspx

Please ignore the fact the reporter calls it a jeep , people here have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to these things.
 
people here have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to these things.

And another one of these poser "trucks" with RWD & no traction bites the dust.........if I buy something like that (or yours) I go for 4WD (unlike you, you cheapskate!)

This was an SRT 10.....the one with the 500hp Viperengine, they don't come in 4wd :p

Besides that , hitting an 'icy spot' (whatever that is) going 140 kph I doubt 4wd will save it.

Another thing you fail to realise is that 4wd on these trucks is infact a on/off systhem designed for off-road /'real' snow surfaces and not an AWD systhem for roaduse like you get on the average SUV thingie these days.

Meaning that it will actualy become LESS roadholding when you have it engaged on a hard surface (the road was clear in this case , minus the 'icy spot') , not to mention it will eat up your front tyres and you will pretty much fuck up every moving part on the truck going motorwayspeeds with it on.......
 
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Yeah, so you could save some weight and buy a Viper in the first place, when they both are just RWD... :p
 
Ow look....ze Germans have arrived stabbing away at everything they do not know :p
 
This was an SRT 10.....the one with the 500hp Viperengine, they don't come in 4wd :p

Besides that , hitting an 'icy spot' (whatever that is) going 140 kph I doubt 4wd will save it.

Another thing you fail to realise is that 4wd on these trucks is infact a on/off systhem designed for off-road /'real' snow surfaces and not an AWD systhem for roaduse like you get on the average SUV thingie these days.

Meaning that it will actualy become LESS roadholding when you have it engaged on a hard surface (the road was clear in this case , minus the 'icy spot') , not to mention it will eat up your front tyres and you will pretty much fuck up every moving part on the truck going motorwayspeeds with it on.......

I had an M-Class over new year's weekend and I must say that I felt a lot safer in it, while accelerating and going in a straight line. Which also has a downside: You don't feel it, when the road is icy. You actually have to brake and see, if the ABS turns on, in order to tell if the road is slick or not.

I felt less safe in it in corners, though -- the momentum tries to carry you straight ahead. However, I was surprised by how good it was braking on ice. Must have been some excellent tires but the profile didn't look like standard snow tires to me. The writing on the 235/65 R17 Goodyear tires said "M+S 4x4", which really doesn't say anything to me.

Was fun, though. It has something immensely satisfying, when you have the capacity to simply drive into the deep snow on the side of the road to let somebody pass. Was fun looking into their faces, as if they were bracing themselves, when the M-Class plowed through 40 cm of snow with two wheels towards them, without losing stability :)
 
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M+S = ghastly no-seasons
 
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