A lesson in patriotism from Smalltown, Georgia

All news sources are biased; you just choose to shit on Fox all the time because you disagree with what they say. Whatever, this is going off topic anyways.

All news sources are biased. But there are degrees. I'll give as much stick to Norwegian paper Klassekampen which is a fucking maoist newspaper, I generally agree with Dagbladet, but if you ask my Norwegian mates, you'll find I shit a lot on their bias. Please don't put opinions on me that I've never ever fucking held. I shit on Fox because they serve up blatant lies, ignore obvious facts and twist stories like Pravda on purpose.

I'd like the left bias to go away. And I'd like the right bias to go away. But when it comes to bias, Fox is king. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Again, please don't pretend to know me.
 
British people can separate the war from the people fighting it. I have not and am willing to bet will not, come across a British person who dislikes the soldiers for the job they are doing. The majority of people dislike the job they are being asked to do but can tell the difference.

As for not showing patriotism - there is a key difference between the British and the US. 11th November is Remembrance Day here, Veterans Day in the US. The Americans celebrate the soldiers who fought and lived. We pause to remember those who died. Both are right, but it is a difference.
 
British people can separate the war from the people fighting it. I have not and am willing to bet will not, come across a British person who dislikes the soldiers for the job they are doing. The majority of people dislike the job they are being asked to do but can tell the difference.

As for not showing patriotism - there is a key difference between the British and the US. 11th November is Remembrance Day here, Veterans Day in the US. The Americans celebrate the soldiers who fought and lived. We pause to remember those who died. Both are right, but it is a difference.

Actually the difference is the US has a day for both. Memorial day is at the end of May.
 
I'm pointing out the difference on the same day. We don't glorify the serving (though Help for Heroes is well supported) as much as those who fell. (Heck, I was in my local Royal Mail Delivery Office yesterday and it has a plaque to those post office workers who died between 1914-1918.)
 
I'm pointing out the difference on the same day. We don't glorify the serving (though Help for Heroes is well supported) as much as those who fell. (Heck, I was in my local Royal Mail Delivery Office yesterday and it has a plaque to those post office workers who died between 1914-1918.)
We do what you do and remember those that have fallen. We then have a separate day to honor those that are currently serving. I apologize that the dates are not to your liking.
 
We do what you do and remember those that have fallen. We then have a separate day to honor those that are currently serving. I apologize that the dates are not to your liking.

As Plissken has already pointed out, he's aware of Memorial Day. I've never really thought about it before but it's interesting to see how differently the two cultures honour the same day. Of course neither is right or wrong so I don't think your (presumably sarcastic) apology is called for.
 
The reason we have it on a different day is because Memorial Day if you notice, is 50 years older.
 
1. War in Vietnam

American losses: 58,193 (+ about 60,000 who committed suicide after the war, if you want to count them as losses, too).

Vietnamese losses: There are no reliable numbers, it seems. But it's safe to say the losses during the conflict with the USA were nearly 2 million (majority being civilians). Not counting the "Secret War" in Laos, wich happened at the same time and involved 150,000 tons of bombs being thrown over the country by U.S. forces.

2. War in Iraq:

American losses: 4,429 and counting
Iraqi losses: Numbers differ between 100,000 and 200,000 but almost all of them civilians

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to go all numbers here. Every soldier being sent to death by his government is a tragic loss, that should have never happened in the first place. The suffering is unimaginable for friends and loved ones.

But one thing always disturbed me over the years: There's always and almost only the moaning about the losses on the side of "Western civilization". The suffering on the other side, however, is often spared out or even ignored.

Yes, it's bad that so many American mothers lost their sons but for crying out loud, it's only a fraction of the losses mothers had on the other side. And their stories are not being told in newspapers, like in the OP, or are subject to TV news. Their post-traumatic syndroms are not the subject of documentaries made my leftwing filmmakers. You actually need stuff like the Top Gear Vietnam Special for being reminded of them, isn't that sad?

When I discussed the topic in the past with Americans, I even came across statements like this after a couple of beers: "Those Asians breed faster than rabbits and can compensate faster for the losses, than the USA, therefore the losses of the USA count the same."

I think no further comment is needed on that.

I grew up in a country, that lost a quarter of its population to a war and wasn't even allowed to openly moan them, because it used to be the baddy. So I have come to take an extremely critical viewpoint on wars in general and if they're really necessary. I don't believe in a "just war", I think that's a myth. At the most, I believe in an unavoidable war, when the circumstances force a country to take part in a conflict.

Concerning the wars in Vietnam and Iraq, I believe they were avoidable and completely pointless and that the blood of every dead solder is on the hands of the political and military leaders. If I had lost a loved one in such an war, I would be furious beyond imagination and would be getting sick about national pathos and spit on the flag.

But I'm not directly involved and as a neutral bystander, I simply feel sorry for all the dead soldiers, not only for the American ones. And let's face it: When you look at the numbers and the devastation in the countries, where the wars happened, the USA don't have all that much reason to complain and moan about it.

Sorry for my rant but reading articles like the ones in the OP, I always feel an urge to say this.

I don't remember ever agreeing with anything you've posted but with this post all I can say is: QFT!
 
I'm sure we can agree on quite a few things, when we really put our mind to it. In this particular case, it's probably my complete disgust about any kind of national pathos, when it comes to the death of a U.S. soldier.

Whenever I read the hollow phrase "He died for his country" about a dead American soldier these days, I'm going to get sick and wanna puke over whoever said that. Because the truth is, that he didn't die for his country, he died for a political agenda.

The ones on the other side, the dead soldiers in Vietnam and Iraq, they died fighting for their country. But not the U.S. soldiers. They were simply sacrificed on the altar of political interests. Their death has no meaning and I really wonder, why there isn't more outrage about all that in America.
 
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I'm sure we can agree on quite a few things, when we really put our mind to it. In this particular case, it's probably my complete disgust about any kind of national pathos, when it comes to the death of a U.S. soldier.

Whenever I read the hollow phrase "He died for his country" about a dead American soldier these days, I'm going to get sick and wanna puke over whoever said that. Because the truth is, that he didn't die for his country, he died for a political agenda.

The ones on the other side, the dead soldiers in Vietnam and Iraq, they died fighting for their country. But not the U.S. soldiers. They were simply sacrificed on the altar of political interests. Their death has no meaning and I really wonder, why there isn't more outrage about all that in America.
It truly disturbs me that there are people out there that think like you do.
 
Well, you have to consider, that I come from a country, where national pathos is being connected with the worst of times. Not that I want to draw a comparison but still I think that it's stupid. It's a very thin line between national pathos and self-righteousness or chauvinism and I simply believe that some Americans are unable to see, when that line is crossed.

I mean stuff like this, where the word "stupid" doesn't even begin to cover it:

And before someone asks: No, that isn't a satire. It's meant completely serious.

Don't get me wrong, though: I'm not against patriotism or being proud of your/my country. But that's a completely different matter.
 
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It truly disturbs me that there are people out there that think like you do.

Because he rationalized that people that die in uniform are no different than those that died without? Or that an American soldier is not worth more or less than those he is trying to kill? That there was no need for American invovlement in Vietnam or the latest version of war with Iraq and Afghanistan. It truely disturbs me that you can be so narrow minded and think your a patriot for thinking that way.
 
Well, you have to consider, that I come from a country, where national pathos is being connected with the worst of times.
I know some people that do this. I think its stupid. That said, I know some people living in your country that have reason to make this "connection".


Not that I want to draw a comparison but still I think that it's stupid. It's a very thin line between national pathos and self-righteousness or chauvinism and I simply believe that some Americans are unable to see, when that line is crossed.
I can see where you're coming from here but I don't think there's anything really wrong with an ultra-patriotic hick from Alabama who thinks that the USA is the best country ever, bar none. Its not like he is going to kill someone just because they are not American.


I mean stuff like this, where the word "stupid" doesn't even begin to cover it:
---[/quote]
:lol: pretty cheesy



Because he rationalized that people that die in uniform are no different than those that died without?
I never said that they are.


Or that an American soldier is not worth more or less than those he is trying to kill?
I never said that either.


That there was no need for American invovlement in Vietnam or the latest version of war with Iraq and Afghanistan.
Never said that either.


It truely disturbs me that you can be so narrow minded and think your a patriot for thinking that way.
I don't recall calling myself a patriot either. Although I will admit that I cant remember half the stuff I post :lol:


All I'm saying is that there is nothing wrong with honoring and thanking those that have voluntarily signed up for the armed forces in a time of war. Whether or not said war is "worth fighting" or "just" is not up to them - its up to the government, for better or for worse.
 
Do they not have idiots in Europe, or is it an American monopoly?
 
Do they not have idiots in Europe, or is it an American monopoly?

Yes, we do. But you know what they say: Everything's bigger in America :p
 
Do they not have idiots in Europe, or is it an American monopoly?

In Europe we have socialized idiocy, in the US idiocy is commercialized.

:p
 
This is why I am often ashamed of being an American.
 
I can see where you're coming from here but I don't think there's anything really wrong with an ultra-patriotic hick from Alabama who thinks that the USA is the best country ever, bar none. Its not like he is going to kill someone just because they are not American.
Will every ultra-patriotic hick kill "foreigners" just for being different? No. Will some of them? Yes.

This is why I am often ashamed of being an American.
Ashamed is such a strong word :p. I find myself ... disappointed in my fellow American sometimes, but it's not going to make me ashamed of where I come from. Besides, there are idiots everywhere.
 
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