Middle East and North Africa Unrest

From the reports I've read, in the lead up to the UN resolution it was England (UK/GB/Whatever) and France leading the push. America was ambivalent, and the Germans were reticent. If that's how it shaped up it would be real nice for one of our European partners to take the lead.
 
Some F-15Es still are over two decades old, newest F-15s or not.

Some are, but a lot are not. F-15E production for the USAF was from 1985 to 2001 (according to Wikipedia, but I thought we were still building some up to 02 or 03), so they are 10-26 years old now.
 
From the reports I've read, in the lead up to the UN resolution it was England (UK/GB/Whatever) and France leading the push. America was ambivalent, and the Germans were reticent. If that's how it shaped up it would be real nice for one of our European partners to take the lead.

I think France may want to take the lead and be chairman of the alliance meeting next week in London.

In Brussels today, the NATO Council of 28 Ambassadors, again failed to reach any agreement regarding the Libyan command question for the third day running.

However, UK Foreign Secretary today announced that a meeting of the alliance would be held in London next week. This could be the prototype meeting of a political forum for the Libyan operation, as alternative to the NATO Council.

BBC News - Live

BBC News said:
#
1651: Britain will host an international conference in London next Tuesday to discuss the Libyan crisis, UK Foreign Secretary William Hague announces.

#
1653: Mr Hague says: "At the conference we will discuss the situation in Libya with our allies and partners and take stock of the implementation of UN Security Council Resolutions 1970 and 1973 (2011). We will consider the humanitarian needs of the Libyan people and identify ways to support the people of Libya in their aspirations for a better future. A wide and inclusive range of countries will be invited, particularly from the region. It is critical that the international community continues to take united and co-ordinated action in response to the unfolding crisis. The meeting will form a contact group of nations to take forward this work."

Continues

* * *

BBC News - Libya air force 'unable to fight'

BBC News said:
Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's air force "no longer exists as a fighting force", the commander of British aircraft operating over Libya has said.

Air Vice Marshal Greg Bagwell said the allies could now operate "with near impunity" over the skies of Libya.

Continues

With fixed radar and IADS degraded, Libya still has many vehicle mounted and hand held SAMs, as well as mobile anti-aircraft guns. There will be a propaganda coup, if an allied aircraft gets shot down now, when neither the Libyan misinformation machine nor the international media will make the fine distinction of air to air action, rather than ground to air.

Understandable to want to praise the allied air forces and make positive statements to the insatiable media, but a more carefully worded statement should have been made than this one.

* * *

More bad news from Syria and Yemen. Yemen parliament imposes state of emergency (BBC News)

BBC News - Syria unrest: Troops 'kill 10 protesters in Deraa'

BBC News said:
At least 10 people have been killed and dozens wounded after Syrian police opened fire on people protesting against the deaths of anti-government demonstrators in Deraa, witnesses say.

Hundreds of youths from nearby villages were shot at when they tried to march into the centre of the southern city.

One person told the Reuters news agency that "bodies fell in the streets".

Continues
 
I think France may want to take the lead and be chairman of the alliance meeting next week in London.

In Brussels today, the NATO Council of 28 Ambassadors, again failed to reach any agreement regarding the Libyan command question for the third day running.

However, UK Foreign Secretary today announced that a meeting of the alliance would be held in London next week. This could be the prototype meeting of a political forum for the Libyan operation, as alternative to the NATO Council.
Oh come the *** on. Put your big boy pants on Europe, or do we need to find those for you?
 
Interesting. This reminds me of how the Tibetan protests in 2008 were portrayed. Which news source is the most unbiased or correct for Bahrain or the middle east in general?
 
Oh come the *** on. Put your big boy pants on Europe, or do we need to find those for you?
:lol:
The problem seems to be getting the NATO politicians to agree.
A US General once quipped that to get all the NATO partners to agree on anything was like ?trying to get a troop of horses to all piss together at the same time?.
Oh, and France doesn?t want to have NATO run the operation anyway.
So we may need that offer of help you made, regarding big pants.

* * *

local Briton tore into BBC news for getting that facts so wrong in Bahrain, soemthing i mentioned when it was going on:

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=302421

Which was appreciated the other day by me, the guy should send that to the BBC, as it shows a better understanding of detail than the reporter had.

* * *

BBC News - Syria unrest: Government pledges political reforms

BBC News said:
Syrian leaders have pledged to introduce reforms to meet the demands of protesters, after days of violence in the southern city of Deraa.

Officials promised to study the need for lifting the state of emergency, in place since 1963.

The government also said it would bring to trial those suspected of killing several protesters in Deraa.

President Bashar al-Assad later ordered the release of everyone arrested during the "recent events", state media said.

Continues

The optimist in me kind of hopes this is as it seems, the cynic in me thinks this could just be a ruse to calm things down while carrying on business as usual.
Time will tell.

:|
 
Interesting. This reminds me of how the Tibetan protests in 2008 were portrayed. Which news source is the most unbiased or correct for Bahrain or the middle east in general?

depends on which area, Iranian and hezbollah are portraying everything in Bahrain as the same as egypt, an oppressive regime, and they were feeding news through their locals here to bbc and human rights watch which was feeding it to the UN (who also apologised). Not sure about the libya side, but i tend to trust word of mouth from people i know and while the GDN is obviously going to stay on the right side of the gummint, they will also try and keep their integrity.

Which was appreciated the other day by me, the guy should send that to the BBC, as it shows a better understanding of detail than the reporter had.

thank you :) And he did forward it to the BBC and posted it on facebook along with a lot of other bahrainis, shia and sunni alike who did not like the way things were being reported
 
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Same with Al Jazeera, at first I watched with interest but over time their language started becoming suggestive and very one-sided for many of the events
 
The F15 being downed really has nothing to do with age. We have F15Es from Lakenheath performing circuits and training missions with Typhoon very regularly, and none of them have gone down. If anything, new aircraft seem to have more technical faults than old aircraft. All in-service aircraft use the same technology, they're all periodically stripped, rebuilt, and upgraded if necessary.

I was fortunate enough to be one of three photographers tasked with covering the Typhoon departure from RAF Coninsgby, and was almost deployed with them. Hopefully I'll be able to get out there within the next few months to see these events first-hand. This is one image of one of our 3sqn jets pulling out of the HAS, and took off for Southern Italy moments later:
http://img708.imageshack.**/img708/9159/webmc.jpg
 
Same with Al Jazeera, at first I watched with interest but over time their language started becoming suggestive and very one-sided for many of the events

I believe Aljazeera had difficult relationship even before the current situation in Libya started.

Last week one of their teams was ambushed near Benghazi and a cameraman was killed. They immediately decided it was a Gaddafi hit and have been very anti-Gaddafi since.

Understandable to be upset, but they should try to maintain journalistic balance, to remain credible, if nothing else.
 
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I believe Aljazeera had difficult relationship even before the current situation in Libya started.

Last week one of their teams was ambushed near Benghazi and a cameraman was killed. They immediately decided it was a Gaddafi hit and have been very anti-Gaddafi since.

Understandable to be upset, but they should try to maintain journalistic balance, to remain credible, if nothing else.
Aye. I took that into consideration. But I believe that the moment the news organisation becomes personally involved with the circumstances, they can never be impartial anymore.
 
BBC News - Libya rebels recapture key town

BBC News said:
Libyan rebels backed by extensive allied air raids have seized control of the frontline oil town of Ajdabiya from Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's forces.

Insurgents celebrated amid the ruins of tanks and artillery pieces and then moved west to the town of Brega.

Continues

Later on today, the Rebels or Freedom Fighters moved into the next town along the coast, Braga. The Libyan regime forces had withdrawn from both after collation air strikes.

This is not only an important morale boost for the Rebels, but also possibly a political reverse for members of the Gaddafi regime, who may start bugging out or changing sides.

* * *

A most strange and extraordinary event today in Tripoli, Libya.

The international press corps is being held at two hotels in the city, this morning while the journalists were having breakfast, a woman walked in and tried to tell them her story.

She claimed she was from Benghazi and had been stopped at a checkpoint then held for two days. During this time she claimed she was tortured and raped, upon release she made her way to the journalist?s hotel.

Youtube Video of Sky News ? Libyan Woman

[video=youtube;4eyuG-C5nH8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eyuG-C5nH8[/video]​


A slightly longer version of this seen later on Sky, showed journalists trying to smuggle out the footage from the restaurant and being grappled with by the Libyan minders attempting to get the video pack of the recording, from their possession. A further shot shown was one of a hotel waitresses shouting at the woman to shut up and trying to slap her face. The last shot is of the woman being bundled into a car and driven away.
(You may find the longer version on the Sky News website.)

:blink:
 
Can I just throw in, that I am quite ashamed for my government's decision to abstain in U.N. and to not take actively part in the military actions? Rumour says, that foreign minister Guido Westerwelle even wanted to vote "No" and could only be forced to change his view after an intervention from chancellor Merkel.

I feel, that we have a special responsibility to go against dictatorships and despots, who slaughter their own people. The abstention was a serious blow against over 60 years of post-war German foreign policy.

Anybody from Germany with me?
 
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Can I just throw in, that I am quite ashamed for my government's decision to abstain in U.N. and to not take actively part in the military actions? Rumour says, that foreign minister Guido Westerwelle even wanted to vote "No" and could only be forced to change his view after an intervention from chancellor Merkel.

I feel, that we have a special responsibility to go against dictatorships and despots, who slaughter their own people. The abstention was a serious blow against over 60 years of post-war German foreign policy.

Anybody from Germany with me?

Noted, but don?t beat yourself up, all governments do stupid things occasionally. Would be grateful for a brief overview of what was the motivation, since it wasn?t covered here at all. (Nor was why France, well Sarkozy anyway, was so hawkish about the operation.)

I had some reservations about a ?No Fly Zone?, for both political and operational reasons. Though I never had any moral doubt than Gaddafi was a bum, who should go.

Anyway, it turned out not to be a ?No Fly Zone?, which probably would not have helped the Benghazi citizens at all. They got a UN resoultion for ?all necessary means? passed instead. This saved Benghazi from the promised ?no mercy? slaughter, as has been seen during the last week. No idea who pulled that rabbit out of the hat at the UN, but it was a good job.

So long as the Gaddafi regime goes, then there is less likely be a political mess. The problem comes if he doesn?t leave and a political stalemate ensues.

* * *

In today's developments, the Rebels have made more gains where the regime forces have already bugged out.

BBC News - Rebels take Ras Lanuf, Brega , Uqayla, Bin Jawad

The media has been banging on about Sirte being a "Gaddafi Stronghold"; this city is the next along the coast.

Maybe it will be too much for the Rebels, will have to wait and see. The media are often wrong about such things. Also, it will be an interesting political dilemma for the coalition, since Gaddafi will not be shelling his on tribe?s people in the city. Therefore, no justifiable mandate to exercise "all necessary means".

A tricky political situation may arise.

:)
 
Would be grateful for a brief overview of what was the motivation, since it wasn?t covered here at all.

They said they supported everything in the resolution except military intervention. The trouble is, sending German troops into battle is extremely unpopular. One week ago there were elections in Saxony-Anhalt. Today there were elections in Baden-W?rttemberg and in Rhineland-Palatinate. Having the nuclear panic is bad enough, no need to also explain to the people why you sent troops into battle. (Side note: The two governing parties both lost massively, the Greens :)yucky:) gained massively. Putting the fear of god into the people always is the best way of getting them to vote in protest of anything.)
 
They said they supported everything in the resolution except military intervention. The trouble is, sending German troops into battle is extremely unpopular. One week ago there were elections in Saxony-Anhalt. Today there were elections in Baden-W?rttemberg and in Rhineland-Palatinate. Having the nuclear panic is bad enough, no need to also explain to the people why you sent troops into battle. (Side note: The two governing parties both lost massively, the Greens :)yucky:) gained massively. Putting the fear of god into the people always is the best way of getting them to vote in protest of anything.)

OK, thanks ? I thought it may be related to elections and other factors.

Prime Minister Cameron seems to have got away with it here in the UK.

It seems people are OK on the humanitarian side, as long as it involves only the Air Force and Navy.

Some people are really pissed off about all the public sector cuts and job losses, but no big demos over the military intervention, so far.

:)
 
Well, to be honest, both the British and the French government haven't exactly covered themselves with glory in the past, when it came to dealing with Gaddafi. I believe the Scottish are still pissed about setting the Lockerbie assassins free and Sarkozy even allowed Gaddafi to build his bedouin tent in a yard in front of the Elis?e Palace on a state visit. Not to mention the Italians. Berlusconi and Gaddafi were like best buddies. All for oil and/or preventing refugees coming to Europe.

So I can understand the eagerness to beat him up now. If it happens quick and powerful, maybe nobody's going to ask embarrassing questions. I almost laughed, when in 2004 or so Gaddafi said, that he would renounce nuclear weapons and everyone applauded and thought he was a cool guy now. Nobody said "Wait a second, why is it cool, when he renounces something he never had and would have never had?"

Anyway...
 
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